The LeanScale Podcast · Episode 22

Clari Acquired Groove...Now What?

Bernardo Alves and Cameron Legge join Anthony Enrico to unpack what the Clari–Groove deal means for the sales tech stack and how RevOps should respond

Anthony Enrico · Co-Founder · LeanScale A LeanScale solo episode
Published Updated 00:23:15 19 min read 3,773 words
Revenue Operations Mergers & Acquisitions GTM Strategy Pricing & Packaging
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Executive Summary

The one-paragraph brief, extended

Why this conversation matters — and who should spend the hour.

In this roundtable episode, LeanScale co-founder and host Anthony Enrico is joined by two engagement managers from the LeanScale team — Bernardo Alves and Cameron Legge — to react, in near real time, to a piece of news that caught the whole RevOps world off guard: Clari, the market-leading forecasting and revenue-intelligence platform, had acquired Groove, one of the best-loved sales-engagement tools. The trio's first reaction is genuine surprise. The trend everyone expected was the reverse — sales-engagement players like Outreach and Salesloft creeping into forecasting and pipeline analytics — so watching Clari take the fight to them 'of its own volition' broke the pattern. And unlike almost everything else in the category, this was an acquisition, not a build.

That distinction is the spine of the conversation. The team walks the recent chronology of the space — Gong being the first to shake things up by layering forecasting on top of conversation analytics, then Outreach and Salesloft piling into revenue intelligence, and ZoomInfo carving its own path with a marketing OS and its Chorus acquisition. The takeaway: the market keeps converging on the same four capabilities every GTM org now wants in one place — sales engagement, conversation intelligence, data and enrichment, and predictable forecasting. The strategic question is no longer whether these get consolidated into platforms, but how — and what that means for the operators who have to design and defend a tech stack.

From there the discussion turns practical and opinionated. LeanScale has historically indexed toward best-in-class point solutions, stitching together the strongest tool in each category. But the hosts sense that model getting harder and more expensive as the lines between tools blur — Outreach and Salesloft, Bernardo quips, are becoming 'different colors of the same shirt.' Cameron's prescription for ops leaders is to stop evaluating vendors in silos by their original label, dust off the scorecard, and re-score every vendor across all the features they've quietly added — and to do it far more often than the old quarterly or annual cadence. Bernardo lays out three plausible futures for these platforms: a clean consolidation into specialized suites, a failure to shake off legacy branding, or the boldest path — becoming the ecosystem itself and going head-to-head with Salesforce and HubSpot on the CRM.

The episode closes on the buyer's decision. HubSpot is held up as the company already threading the needle — data, engagement, conversation intelligence, and the CRM under one roof, winning hearts and minds along the way. Anthony floats a thought experiment (what if Salesforce simply acquired one of these platforms?) before landing on concrete advice: bundling is likely to be more affordable than dispersing spend across point solutions, cost will become a finance-led concern, and with vendors opening 'war chests' to grab market share, an ops team ready to commit to a platform has real negotiating leverage right now. Who should listen: RevOps and ops leaders architecting a sales/marketing stack, founders and revenue executives weighing platform-versus-point-solution bets, and anyone trying to read where sales-tech consolidation goes next.

Key Takeaways

13 things worth stealing

The load-bearing ideas, each with the business implication and who should care.

01

Consolidation in sales tech is inevitable — the only question is how

Between the logo wall LeanScale couldn't fit on one screen and a market that keeps converging on the same capabilities, the team sees more consolidation as a near-certainty. Clari buying Groove is one more data point on a line that only goes one way.

Why it matters: Plan your tech-stack strategy for a consolidating market, not a static one. Assume the vendor map you evaluate today will look materially different in a year.

RevOps LeadersRevenue ExecutivesFounders
02

This deal broke the pattern: the category grew by building, not buying

Almost every capability expansion in the space — Gong into forecasting, Outreach and Salesloft into conversation and revenue intelligence — was built in-house. The only close comparable acquisition was ZoomInfo buying Chorus. Clari acquiring Groove is a rare, deliberate change in tactics.

Why it matters: Read acquisitions as a strategic signal, not just a headline. When a forecasting leader buys an engagement leader outright, it's telling you which capabilities it believes must live together.

RevOps LeadersRevenue Executives
03

The market keeps asking for the same four-layer stack

Under all the noise, the team identifies a consistent core set of functionalities every GTM org wants: sales engagement (cadences and sequences), conversation intelligence, data and enrichment to fuel it all, and a layer of predictable forecasting. Clari has led the forecasting layer for years; Groove is a standout in engagement.

Why it matters: Architect your stack around these four capabilities rather than around vendor brands. It clarifies where you actually have coverage and where you're paying twice.

RevOps LeadersFounders
04

Stop evaluating vendors in silos — re-score every tool across all its features

Ops leaders anchor on what a vendor was originally known for — ZoomInfo as data, Outreach and Salesloft as engagement — and evaluate in a silo. But these companies have been investing in adjacent capabilities the whole time, so a tool you bought for one job may now cover three.

Why it matters: Dust off the scorecard and grade every vendor across its full, current feature set — deal intelligence, forecasting, data — so you can consolidate spend and cut redundancy instead of buying the same capability twice.

RevOps LeadersRevenue Executives
05

An acquisition isn't a build — fit and integration are the real risk

Groove's edge was how seamlessly it integrates with Salesforce; the fear is that bolting two differently-built companies and codebases together introduces duplication and friction that a native build wouldn't. Clean integration of two technologies is genuinely hard.

Why it matters: Don't assume day-one parity from an acquired suite. Pressure-test how deeply the acquired tool actually integrates before you bet your workflow on the combined platform.

RevOps LeadersRevenue Executives
06

Point-solution 'best-in-class' is getting harder — and more expensive

LeanScale historically indexed toward stitching together the strongest tool per category. But the hosts increasingly doubt the differentiation between one engagement tool or forecasting AI and the next, and note that assembling best-in-class point solutions is becoming either impractical or simply costly.

Why it matters: Revisit a point-solution strategy you set years ago. If the marginal quality gap between tools has closed, the premium you pay to avoid a platform may no longer be worth it.

RevOps LeadersRevenue ExecutivesFounders
07

Three futures for the consolidating platforms

Bernardo sketches three equally plausible paths: (1) consolidation and rebranding succeed and you get highly specialized, all-in-one platforms; (2) vendors can't shake their legacy branding and stay boxed into what they were known for; or (3) a platform gets specialized enough to build a CRM and take on the giants directly, becoming the ecosystem rather than a package of solutions.

Why it matters: Watch which path each vendor is on before you commit. A platform that becomes the ecosystem is a very different long-term bet than one stuck in its old category.

RevOps LeadersFoundersRevenue Executives
08

The 'productivity platforms' are creeping toward the CRM

Because these tools already surface prospects, deals, and pipeline, they aren't far from CRM functionality. The team frames it as an arms race — subtle at first ('you may not even need a CRM') — where a vendor eventually stops playing nice in the sandbox with Salesforce and HubSpot and competes head-on.

Why it matters: Factor CRM ambitions into platform bets. The engagement or forecasting vendor you adopt today could be trying to replace your system of record tomorrow — an opportunity or a conflict, depending on your setup.

RevOps LeadersRevenue ExecutivesFounders
09

HubSpot is the proof case for threading the needle

HubSpot is cited as the company already executing the all-in-one play — data, engagement, conversation intelligence, and the CRM in one — while gaining market share and, notably, winning genuine customer loyalty. It's the working example of the consolidation thesis the rest of the market is chasing.

Why it matters: When you evaluate whether a platform can credibly own multiple layers, benchmark against HubSpot's execution — breadth alone isn't enough without the adoption and affection to back it.

RevOps LeadersFounders
10

Re-evaluate on a shorter cycle — the annual review is dead

With consolidation accelerating and features shifting under you, an annual or even quarterly tech-stack review is too slow. Cameron argues for rethinking the frequency entirely and keeping a living scorecard that captures what each vendor can actually do right now.

Why it matters: Build a recurring, structured re-evaluation into your operating cadence rather than treating stack decisions as a once-a-year event you can set and forget.

RevOps LeadersRevenue Executives
11

Cost and bundling economics now favor platforms — and finance is watching

In an inflationary period, cost becomes a first-order factor, and bundling is likely to be more cost-incentivized than dispersing spend across point solutions. This is exactly what finance leaders will focus on as more consolidation, mergers, and acquisitions hit the news.

Why it matters: Bring the cost model into the stack decision explicitly and partner with finance. The economic case for consolidating onto a platform is often what tips the tradeoff.

Revenue ExecutivesFoundersRevOps Leaders
12

Vendor war chests mean you have negotiating leverage right now

These companies are opening up war chests to grab market share, which gives a buyer ready to commit real negotiating power. If your go-to-market org can pick a full-fledged platform now, you can likely land a strong deal — and you can always re-evaluate as the market commoditizes.

Why it matters: If a platform bet is defensible, timing it while vendors are fighting for share can win you materially better commercial terms than waiting until the dust settles.

RevOps LeadersRevenue ExecutivesFounders
13

Stay connected and flexible — you can't predict the next disruptor

In a period of heavy change with blurring, commoditizing tools, the durable move is to stay well connected to vendors, keep testing new offerings, and preserve the ability to pivot. You never know which player breaks out to the next frontier and becomes the clear standout.

Why it matters: Treat vendor relationships and continuous testing as part of the job, not overhead. Optionality — being ready to move when someone breaks away — is worth more than loyalty to a current pick.

RevOps LeadersRevenue Executives
Frameworks Discussed

4 named models

Every framework Jimmy names, defined and time-stamped.

The Four-Layer GTM Tech Stack

05:48

The consistent core set of capabilities the market keeps asking to have in one place: sales engagement (cadences and sequences), conversation intelligence, data and enrichment, and predictable forecasting.

The team argues that under all the vendor noise, buyers converge on these four layers — so consolidation is really the effort to package them into a single platform. Clari has owned the forecasting layer; Groove strengthens the engagement layer; the deal is an attempt to bring more of the four under one roof.

Three Futures for the Consolidating Stack

11:38

Bernardo's three equally-likely scenarios for these platforms: (1) consolidation and rebranding succeed into specialized all-in-one platforms; (2) vendors can't escape their legacy branding and stay boxed into what they were known for; (3) a platform becomes the ecosystem — builds a CRM and takes on Salesforce and HubSpot directly.

The framework is a way to place any vendor on a map of possible trajectories, because the same acquisition could lead to any of the three. It reframes 'which tool is best' into 'which future is this vendor betting on,' which is the more decision-relevant question for a buyer.

The Living Vendor Scorecard

08:24

A re-evaluation discipline: dust off a structured scorecard and grade every vendor across its full, current feature set — not just its original category — and refresh it far more often than quarterly or annually.

Cameron's answer to consolidation: because vendors keep adding adjacent capabilities (deal intelligence, forecasting, data), evaluating them by their old label leaves value and redundancy hidden. The scorecard forces a cross-the-board look so you can consolidate spend and cut duplicate capabilities.

Point Solutions vs. Pick a Pony

20:02

The core buyer decision: assemble best-in-class point solutions for each category, or align the whole go-to-market operation on a single consolidated platform. As tools commoditize, the pull is toward picking one 'pony,' driven by cost, bundling economics, and current negotiating leverage.

LeanScale historically favored point solutions, but the hosts see best-in-class getting expensive and the differentiation between tools shrinking. The tradeoff is capability breadth versus cost and simplicity — and with vendors opening war chests, committing to a platform now can win favorable terms.

Best Quotes

16 lines worth clipping

Pulled verbatim. Copy or share any of them.

“There's going to be some major evaluation happening across organizations and ops teams to make sure that they have the best technology that they can — but at the right price.”
Cameron Legge 00:00
“Unless you've been living under a rock, you've probably seen that Clari has acquired Groove. This is a huge topic, especially for anybody in RevOps.”
Anthony Enrico 00:30
“The trend has been that the sales engagement tools were the ones creeping into forecasting and pipeline analytics. So seeing Clari come into the fray of their own volition and take the fight to them was surprising.”
Bernardo Alves 01:07
“This is one of the few big acquisitions we've seen in this space — a race almost to take over the RevOps tech stack.”
Anthony Enrico 02:56
“Clari is one of the best tools when it comes to forecasting, and Groove is a standout in communication strategy — the native connection with Salesforce is incredibly seamless.”
Bernardo Alves 04:24
“Because it isn't a build and it is an acquisition, you're going to have to deal with fit and how these two integrate with one another. And that brings its own set of challenges.”
Bernardo Alves 05:10
“There's a core set of functionalities the market is really asking for: sales engagement, conversational intelligence, data, and predictable forecasting. And the strategy is: let's consolidate these into platforms.”
Anthony Enrico 05:48
“It's time to shed the preconceived notions — that ZoomInfo is the data tool and Outreach and Salesloft are the sales engagement software. It's time to dust off our scorecards and look vendor by vendor at every feature they've added.”
Cameron Legge 08:24
“There's going to be a really strong incentive to pick a platform and align your go-to-market operation on one of them. It's going to be really hard to have best-in-class point solutions — or it's just going to be expensive.”
Anthony Enrico 10:48
“I'm sure one of these is eventually going to get so close that they'll ask: can we take on the giants in this space? Instead of being a package of solutions — can I be the solution and become the ecosystem?”
Bernardo Alves 13:01
“One company already taking that approach is HubSpot. They've threaded the needle — they have data, engagement, conversation intelligence, and they are the CRM.”
Anthony Enrico 13:41
“It almost feels like an arms race of features and capabilities. I'm just wondering how long it takes them to stop playing nice in the sandbox with the CRMs.”
Cameron Legge 14:23
“Outreach and Salesloft feel like different flavors — different colors of the same shirt. Do you want green or purple?”
Bernardo Alves 17:38
“At a certain point, you're going to have to pick a pony. Which platform are you going with?”
Cameron Legge 20:02
“Right now these companies are opening up war chests to gain market share. If you can pick a partner now, you have a lot of negotiation power to go with a full-fledged platform.”
Anthony Enrico 20:47
“One thing's for sure: there's going to be more consolidation. And it's very likely it'll be much more affordable to invest in a platform than to disperse your tech stack across a bunch of point solutions.”
Anthony Enrico 22:13
Practical Advice

What should you actually do?

The playbook, split by the seat you sit in.

RevOps Leaders

  • Dust off the scorecard and re-score every vendor across its full, current feature set — not the category you originally bought it for — so you can consolidate spend and cut redundant capabilities.
  • Shorten your re-evaluation cadence; consolidation is moving too fast for an annual or even quarterly stack review.
  • Stress-test integration before betting on an acquired suite — an acquisition isn't a native build, and fit is where combined platforms leak value.
  • Stay connected to vendors and keep testing so you can pivot quickly when a player breaks out to the next frontier.

Revenue Executives

  • Weigh the point-solution-vs-platform tradeoff explicitly: as tools commoditize, best-in-class per category is getting expensive relative to a bundled platform.
  • Use current market dynamics — vendors opening war chests for share — to negotiate strong terms if you're ready to commit to a platform now.
  • Bring finance into the decision; in an inflationary market, bundling economics and cost are becoming the deciding factor.

Founders

  • Architect your stack around the four core capabilities — engagement, conversation intelligence, data, and forecasting — rather than around vendor brands.
  • Read acquisitions and consolidation as strategic signals about which capabilities the market believes must live together.
  • Factor a vendor's CRM ambitions into any platform bet — the engagement or forecasting tool you adopt may be trying to become your system of record.
Operations Takeaways

By function

The same conversation, filtered for RevOps, pipeline/marketing ops, and customer ops.

Revenue Operations

  • Consolidation is the base case. Assume the sales/marketing tech map keeps collapsing into platforms; design your stack strategy for a moving market, not a static one.
  • Score the whole vendor. Grade every tool across its full current feature set — not the category you bought it for — to expose redundancy and consolidation opportunities.
  • Shorten the cadence. Replace the annual/quarterly stack review with a living scorecard refreshed far more often as features shift under you.
  • Integration is the risk. An acquired suite isn't a native build; pressure-test fit and integration before betting a workflow on the combined platform.
  • Point solutions are getting pricey. As tools commoditize, best-in-class-per-category is becoming expensive relative to a bundled platform — revisit an old point-solution strategy.
  • Time your leverage. Vendors opening war chests for share means a buyer ready to commit to a platform can negotiate materially better terms now.
Metrics Mentioned

The numbers, with context

$100M
Apollo funding raise

Apollo raised $100 million to enter the GTM-platform race as a fresh contender alongside Clari/Groove, Outreach, Salesloft, ZoomInfo, and Gong.

Shorter than quarterly/annual
Tech-stack re-evaluation cadence

Cameron argues consolidation is moving fast enough that ops leaders can no longer re-score their stack only quarterly or annually.

Entities

Companies, people & tools mentioned

Auto-extracted and linked into the knowledge graph.

Companies

LeanScaleGTM Operations

The hosts frame the discussion from LeanScale's seat as the RevOps firm that implements these tools daily; they reference an internal 'logo wall' of sales/marketing tech too large to fit on one screen and the recommendations they make to customers.

00:30 · 07:06 · 21:36Company →
HubSpotCRM / Marketing

Held up as the company already threading the needle on the all-in-one play — data, engagement, conversation intelligence, and the CRM in one — while gaining share and genuine customer loyalty; also the incumbent ZoomInfo's marketing OS targets.

03:36 · 13:41Company →
ZoomInfoGTM Data / Sales Intelligence

Discussed as the vendor following its own path — building a marketing OS to compete with HubSpot and making the closest comparable prior acquisition (Chorus) for conversation intelligence.

02:56 · 03:36Company →

People

Anthony Enricohost

Co-founder of LeanScale and host of The LeanScale Podcast.

Co-FounderProfile →
Bernardo Alvesguest

Engagement manager at LeanScale; came up through customer success into operations and business intelligence, focused on attribution and usage-based tracking.

Engagement Manager, LeanScaleProfile →
Cameron Leggeguest

Customer-success professional and early LeanScale Engagement Manager; a CS practitioner who argues customer success is a company's 'front porch' and most underrated growth engine.

Engagement Manager, LeanScaleProfile →

Tools & software

ClariRevenue Intelligence / Forecasting

The acquirer — a market-leading forecasting and revenue-intelligence platform, strong on the automation and AI side. Its purchase of Groove is the episode's news hook and a rare acquisition in a build-first category.

Website ↗
GrooveSales Engagement

The acquired sales-engagement platform, praised for its native, seamless Salesforce integration and given the edge on usability even over Outreach and Salesloft; LeanScale are 'big fans.' The open risk is fit and integration.

Website ↗
OutreachSales Engagement

Named repeatedly with Salesloft as the sales-engagement incumbents that built (not bought) their way into conversation and revenue intelligence; described as 'different colors of the same shirt.'

Website ↗
SalesloftSales Engagement

Paired with Outreach throughout as a near-identical sales-engagement platform expanding into deal intelligence and forecasting.

Website ↗
GongRevenue Intelligence

Credited as the first to shake up the space by rolling out forecasting and revenue intelligence on top of conversation analytics.

Website ↗
SalesforceCRM

The system-of-record these 'productivity platforms' plug into and may eventually compete with; floated in a thought experiment as a hypothetical acquirer that could pull all capabilities under one roof.

Website ↗
Apollo.ioSales Intelligence / Engagement

Cited as a fresh, well-funded contender that just raised $100 million to enter the consolidating platform race.

Website ↗
ChorusConversation Intelligence

The conversation-intelligence tool ZoomInfo acquired — the closest comparable prior acquisition to the Clari/Groove deal.

Website ↗
Related LeanScale Services

Where this shows up in the work

Fractional RevOps

Embedded, field-facing RevOps leadership and execution — the operator model Jimmy describes, delivered as a service.

The whole episode is LeanScale's own tech-stack evaluation playbook — 'we implement these tools all day long' — which is exactly the fractional RevOps work they deliver.

Forecasting & ARR Definition

Define a raise-worthy ARR and build a reliable consumption forecast across finance, data science, and go-to-market.

Clari, the acquirer, leads the forecasting and revenue-intelligence layer of the stack the hosts dissect — designing and implementing that layer is a direct LeanScale engagement.

Frequently Asked Questions

Straight answers

Generated from the conversation, marked up for search and AI extraction.

Why did Clari acquire Groove?

Clari — the market-leading forecasting and revenue-intelligence platform — acquired Groove, one of the best-loved sales-engagement tools, to consolidate more of the core go-to-market stack (engagement plus forecasting) into a single platform. The move was notable because the category had almost entirely grown by building capabilities in-house rather than acquiring, making this a rare and deliberate change in tactics.

What does the Clari–Groove acquisition mean for RevOps teams?

It's a signal that consolidation in sales tech is accelerating. RevOps teams should re-evaluate their stack across every vendor's full feature set rather than by original category, expect to face platform-versus-point-solution decisions, and factor bundling economics and cost into those choices. It also raises the odds that the tools you use are converging toward doing everything, so redundancy in your stack is worth auditing.

What are the core categories of a modern sales and marketing tech stack?

The episode identifies four capabilities the market keeps asking to have in one place: sales engagement (cadences and sequences to reach prospects and customers), conversation intelligence (call recording and analytics), data and enrichment (contacts and account information), and predictable forecasting. Consolidation is largely the effort to package these four layers into a single platform.

Is it better to buy best-in-class point solutions or one consolidated platform?

Best-in-class point solutions give you the strongest tool in each category, but as tools commoditize that approach is getting harder and more expensive. The hosts see a strong and growing incentive to align a go-to-market operation on a single platform — bundling is likely more cost-effective than dispersing spend, and with vendors competing hard for market share, committing now can win favorable terms. It depends on your needs, but the pull is toward picking one platform.

Will sales engagement and revenue platforms replace the CRM?

They're trending that way. Because these 'productivity platforms' already surface prospects, deals, and pipeline, they aren't far from CRM functionality, and the team frames the competition as an arms race that could end with a vendor taking on Salesforce and HubSpot directly. HubSpot already threads the needle with data, engagement, conversation intelligence, and the CRM in one — but most platforms still play nice with CRMs today because those partnerships are core to their business.

How often should RevOps re-evaluate its tech stack?

More often than the traditional annual or even quarterly review. With consolidation accelerating and vendors constantly adding features, an ops leader should keep a living scorecard and re-grade every vendor across its full, current capabilities on a shorter cycle — so consolidation opportunities and redundant spend don't go unnoticed.

Who are the main contenders in the sales-tech consolidation race?

The episode names the Clari/Groove combination, Outreach, Salesloft, ZoomInfo (which took its own path with a marketing OS and its Chorus acquisition), Gong (an early mover into forecasting), and Apollo — which raised $100 million to enter as a fresh contender. HubSpot is cited separately as the company furthest along the all-in-one-plus-CRM path.

Timeline

Jump through the conversation

Click any chapter to open it in the transcript.

00:00Cold open: a wave of tech-stack re-evaluation is coming 00:30The surprise: Clari acquires Groove 02:20A rare acquisition in a build-first market 03:36How the revenue-intelligence arms race started 04:24Why Clari + Groove could fit — and the integration risk 05:48The core stack the market keeps asking for 06:24The consolidation contenders: who's in the race 07:06More consolidation is inevitable: dust off the scorecards 10:09Point solutions vs. picking a platform 11:38Three futures for the consolidating stack 13:41HubSpot threads the needle 14:23Will these platforms become the CRM? 15:37Thought experiment: what if Salesforce buys a platform? 16:11Advice for RevOps leaders today 18:57Cost, bundling, and re-evaluation cadence 20:02You're going to have to pick a pony 21:36Wrap-up: now what?
Full Transcript

The whole conversation

Broken into chapters, searchable, verbatim from the audio. Speakers inferred (not diarized).

Transcript as markdown ↓ Whole episode as markdown ↓
00:00Cold open: a wave of tech-stack re-evaluation is coming

0:00 So there's going to be some major evaluation things happening across organizations and ops teams to make sure that they have the best technology that they can, but at the right price.

0:19 Welcome to The LeanScale Podcast, where we talk about everything RevOps. Thank you for listening.

00:30The surprise: Clari acquires Groove

0:30 So unless you've been living under a rock, you've probably seen that Clary has acquired Groove. Now this is a huge topic, especially for anybody in RevOps. It's a really meaty topic to go through too. There's just so much that's happening here. So I'm here with Bernardo and Cam from the LeanScale team. We're going to unpack as much as we can and dive into it. But the first that I think is interesting is I was pretty surprised by it. This was not something I was expecting to happen. This wasn't something that I think a lot of people were expecting to happen. So when I saw

1:07 the announcement, I was taken back a little bit. I don't know how you guys feel. I was certainly taken by surprise. I think it was not something that I expected. I think the trend has been that more so the sales engagement tools were the ones that were creeping into the forecasting and pipeline analytics side of things. So seeing Clary kind of come into the fray of their own volition and taking the fight to them was surprising. But Groove as a fit was also a really interesting choice. We're big fans of Groove at LeanScale. So I'm glad to see them get the recognition that

1:46 they deserve. We think it's a good fit. But it was definitely not something that we expected. Yeah, just to piggyback off that, I mean, we've had great experiences with both tools. So as Bernardo said, when you think about a best in class point solution for both of those respective companies, you know, something that certainly had our ears perked up our eyes wide to see the acquisition. So it is really interesting to think about the sales technology space and how we've seen some consolidation in the market recently and many tools trying to be the jack of all trades.

02:20A rare acquisition in a build-first market

2:20 So for Clary to go out and acquire a tool like Groove and a company like Groove was really interesting to see. Yeah, and I think a lot of it has mostly been building new capabilities. So Bernardo, you're mentioning, okay, if you look at the outreach and sales loft type of companies in the world, they've been building conversation intelligence. They've been building out their own capabilities for forecasting deals and forecasting pipeline. And not a lot of acquisitions had been made. And this is a huge one. Compared to anything else, the one that may be comparable is Zoom info

2:56 acquiring chorus to add some conversational intelligence. But everything else has really been built into the platform itself. So this is one of the few big acquisitions we've seen in this space race almost to take over the RevOps tech stock. Yeah, it's an interesting one, too. I think you hit it on the nail on the head there. I think the first one that comes to mind in terms of the chronology there was when Gong, which I don't think you mentioned there, but when they started rolling out their forecasting revenue, to me, was the first one that started making some

03:36How the revenue-intelligence arms race started

3:36 waves and starting shaking things up. And then very quickly, it felt like sales loft and outreach got into the mix, primarily in the conversation intelligence first, but once they introduced the revenue intelligence portion, that kind of just opened the floodgates for everyone to get involved in there. But you're right outside of Zoom info, which really has been in their own category of doing their own thing and following a very unique path of just trying to dominate. They've done marketing OS trying to compete with HubSpot as well. So they've been on their own very interesting

04:24Why Clari + Groove could fit — and the integration risk

4:24 path for a while now. But in terms of these tools that are very much fighting for specific market share against each other, no one has taken the acquisition path yet. They've always been building. So this is definitely a change in tactics. And ultimately, I think the payoff could be very significant because Clary is one of the best tools when it comes to forecasting out there, especially what they can do on the automation side, on the AI side. They are very strong there. And Groove is a standout tool in terms of communication strategy, what they are able to do in terms of their native connection with Salesforce and how seamless they integrate

5:10 within the system. I do tend to give them the edge even compared to the outreach and sales loss of the world from a user usability perspective, and just how seamless they integrate with your overall processes and systems that you don't deal with nearly as much duplication or anything like that. But because it is a build, but because it isn't a build, and it is an acquisition, you're going to have to deal with fit and how these two will integrate with one another. And that brings its own sets of challenges. For sure, for sure. It's always difficult to do

05:48The core stack the market keeps asking for

5:48 a clean integration of two companies, especially when you're taking two technologies. They're built very differently. The way they're developed and the way they've grown is very different. But what it does seem to be apparent is there seems to be this core set of functionalities that the market is really asking for. You need some level of sales engagement, so sending out your cadences and sequences to engage with your prospects and customers. You need conversational intelligence. That's becoming more and more of a requirement in the tech stack. You need data to empower this

06:24The consolidation contenders: who's in the race

6:24 whole thing. So you need to be able to pull contacts and information of your targets to be able to even start being productive with anything. And then there's this layer of predictable forecasting that a lot of the companies are building into their platform. And some of that clarity has just been a market leader in for a very long time. So these seem to be the components that customers really care about. And it's made very clear, the strategy is, let's consolidate these into platforms. And so now we are left with a few different avenues to follow. So you have the clarity groove combo, you have outreach, sales,

07:06More consolidation is inevitable: dust off the scorecards

7:06 loft, zoom, info, you have gong, you have Apollo, who just raised $100 million to enter in the race as another contender. What do we think is going to happen next? Because customers I don't think have fully reacted to what's happening in the space. I'll take that one. I think it's more consolidation. I mean, I know at lean scale, I think it was maybe the last Q4 where we looked at a logo wall of technology in the sales and marketing space. And there was probably more logos that we couldn't get on the screen. But there's just so many players out there that I think the industry is just ripe for more consolidation. So I think of it when we talk

7:50 around the water cooler about the tools that are out there, we're going to continue to see more consolidation in the way of Anthony, you just listed out all of those different functionalities and features at every organization. And certainly on the go to market side needs, we're going to see more of this consolidation. And I think what it's going to happen from an ops perspective is we're tasked with evaluating tech stack, right or reevaluating tech stack on a regular basis. So we almost feel like at lean scale, it's time to start to shed some of those preconceived notions

8:24 of, Hey, zoom info is the data enrichment tool and outreach and sales loft is the sales engagement software. It's time to start to shed that and we're going to have to start evaluating these tools for all of the features and functionalities that they've been adding over time. And instead of going out and saying, I'm going to pick here, I'm going to pick there and just evaluate in a silo, it's time to look across the board. Because if they've been investing funds in it, these are smart people, right? They're leading businesses that, you know, they want to add functionality that works and it is attractive to the market. So I think we've even had to

9:00 do some looks in the mirror to say, Hey, it's time to dust off our scorecards. And let's start to look vendor by vendor and really understand what features and capabilities they're adding, because we're going to have to start to look at that and recommend to our customers. Hey, you may think of sales loft as sales engagement software, a and outreach as sales engagement software B, but what about their deal intelligence? It's time to start unraveling that to see what value you can get out of that to then maybe make cuts in other areas or reevaluate other areas of the tech stack. So I think that's as an ops leader, that's where you've got to start

9:38 looking and reevaluating to say, okay, what does each of these tools actually bring to the table? What can get me to where I need to go? And where can I start to consolidate even internally? Because as we start to look at this consolidation, you're going to have to start to look across all those features and functionalities that you need to continue to push your go to market teams forward. It's just going to, it's going to be the nature of the beast going forward as we look into the future. And this was just, you know, one element to continue to push that consolidation downline.

10:09Point solutions vs. picking a platform

10:09 Yeah, when I, you mentioned it, but to reiterate, when I think of our own recommendations, what are we recommending to customers right now? We, I would say, index a little bit more towards best in class point solutions, and then create the tech stack that gives you the best capability in each of those functional categories. But I don't know if there's that much differentiation between the engagement aspect of one platform over another anymore. I don't know if the deal intelligence or the AI behind forecasting is that much better with one tool over another.

10:48 But my, my prediction, I think it's going to be, I think it's, there's going to be a really strong incentive to pick a platform and to align your go to market operation on one of these platforms. I think it's going to be really hard to have best in class point solutions, or it's just going to be expensive. Yeah, I generally agree. I think, in a way, I see three paths. And I think we're in the middle of a crossroads right now when it comes to technology and solutions when it comes to to the business world. And I can see any of these three coming just as likely as the next, it could

11:38Three futures for the consolidating stack

11:38 be that this consolidation and branding exercises goes through exactly as we expected to. And we end up with these highly specialized packages that we have all the incentive in the world to go with a solidified platform. And you become, you know, a vendor of choice with an all encompassing solution. I can see that being the case, I can see a world in which you just can't shake off your previous branding. And you end up being known for what you've been known, and you just stay in that bucket for a very long time. And that's what you end up being forever. Hopefully, that's not the case,

12:21 because these companies are investing a lot of resources into rebranding and changing their go to market strategy. But I mean, we're pretty on top of technology, it's something that we're evaluating day to day. And we had to do research to make sure that we were up to date on what everybody for the purpose of this podcast was offering. And it's really easy to get lost and diluted amongst offering when everybody's doing everything, right. So people are going to naturally gravitate towards what you're known for. And it's hard to shake that branding and pivot to something

13:01 successful. So I can see a world in which that just maintains the status quo. And then I can also see a world in which you become so specialized as a platform that you just end up biting the bullet in a CPU. And you just go head to head with HubSpot and Salesforce, right? What's the differentiation between somebody that can offer everything and a CRM at that point, you're so close to threading the needle there. I'm sure one of these is eventually going to get so close that they're going to want to see can we take on the giants into space? And instead of being, you know,

13:41HubSpot threads the needle

13:41 a point solution or a package of solutions, can I be the solution and become the ecosystem? Well, one company that is doing that and taking that approach right now is HubSpot. And they have done an incredible job gaining market share, gaining customers, honestly, winning hearts and minds. There are a lot of people who are very, very proud to be a HubSpot customer. And they have threaded the needle pretty well of offering a lot of these solutions in one they have data, they have engagement, they have conversation intelligence, and they are the CRM. That's actually a really interesting

14:23Will these platforms become the CRM?

14:23 thought. Do we think that these, I will call them productivity platforms, because normally, you know, you're plugging this into Salesforce or something else to make it work. But do we think these platforms will creep into the CRM space and just own it themselves? Certainly seems to be trending that way. It almost feels like an arms race, right? It's an arms race of features and capabilities. So whether it starts more subtly, saying, Hey, you may not even need a CRM, because we have the sales engagement tool that you can see all your prospects, all your deals,

15:00 I mean, the features aren't that far away from a CRM. I'm just wondering how long it takes them to stop playing nice in the sandbox with the CRMs out there, right? Because it's such a huge part of their business to, you know, be partnered with acquainted with your big CRMs of the world, your Salesforce is your Hubspots. So I can't imagine it's going to take a lot more to cross that bridge, but they better do so gently because it just is so important to their business to have those nice connections and friendly partnerships with the CRMs. But it just feels

15:37Thought experiment: what if Salesforce buys a platform?

15:37 like the arms race is getting closer and closer that eventually there's going to be one of these technologies that takes the punch. Well, and I'll make one. I'll throw one thought experiment out there. And I don't think I think this is really unlikely to happen because Salesforce has always been known for building their business on the marketplace and they invest in the marketplace, but it would be really interesting if Salesforce decided to acquire one of these platforms and bring all of the capabilities that they have under one roof. Again, I don't think it would happen. I

16:11Advice for RevOps leaders today

16:11 think it would dramatically impact their business, but I think it's an interesting thought if they decided to pull the trigger on something like that. So what advice do we have for somebody managing RevOps today? So try to think about what does our tech stack look like today, all these movements in the marketing, all this in the market, all this consolidation happening. What should we be telling RevOps leaders right now? I think the biggest thing that I would offer as advice is just make your connections in these companies, right? It's a period of heavy change. So make sure that you're

16:55 well connected, make sure that you're trying out new things and staying up to date on what the offerings are and how they're changing because you want to be able to be in a position where if somebody is able to innovate and go to that next frontier where they become a clear standout, you can pivot in that direction with the way that things are going and things are becoming so hyper generalized and the lines between all of these tools are getting blurrier and blurrier. They're becoming very commoditized in a way. The difference between a sales loft and an outreach

17:38 in particular, they feel like different flavors or different colors of the same shirt. Do you want green or purple? Yeah, sorry. Outreach and sales loft, if you're listening to this, we like you both, but you guys are very similar. So just being able to be flexible in terms of what you're doing and how you're evaluating these tools. You definitely just want to be connected and keep an eye out for what the movements are and what's taking place in there because you never know what's going to be the big disruptor that takes it to the next level. And there's a lot of ambiguity right now in terms of what could be the next big move that

18:20 changes the landscape. It's certainly an arms race right now. Yeah, I think as an ops leader, the evaluation and reevaluation, you probably need to rethink the frequency that you're doing it. It's no longer could be quarterly or even annually, right? It's time like I talked about the scorecard. It's time to get that out from a vendor standpoint and really have clear buckets of, yes, you may know technology as this, like we talked about, but what are the other capabilities? Like it's time to really go deep on what's available. And we've barely scratched the surface.

18:57Cost, bundling, and re-evaluation cadence

18:57 I know we've been talking for a little while. This is going to be one of our longer podcasts that doesn't have one of our great guests that come on. But you're going to have to look at that scorecard. You're going to have to get deep on the functionality of each of those things and what the trade-offs are. And we've barely touched on the cost implications, right? We can't necessarily project what cost is going to happen. I mean, we're seeing an inflationary period, so we can assume things are going up. Bundling may be more cost incentivized, but it's time to look at that and

19:30 cost is going to be a huge factor. That's what your finance leaders in your organization are going to be focused on, especially as maybe more of this consolidation happens, more things are in the news about technologies coming together and acquisitions and mergers. So I think it's just going to be more frequent reevaluation, evaluation of new tooling to make sure that you're on top of where you may be able to start to bundle things together because you feel like the capabilities are good enough to get you where you're at today. So there's going to be some major evaluation things

20:02You're going to have to pick a pony

20:02 happening across organizations and ops teams to make sure that they have the best technology that they can, but at the right price. Yeah, they get a certain point. You're going to have to pick a pony. Yeah. Which platform are you going with? Because it's going to likely. We can't predict, but I'm going to assume it's going to be much more affordable to bundle and package everything into one platform. So keeping your eyes on what these platforms are doing, are the features that they're adding real alternatives or is there something missing? Are they checking boxes to

20:38 try to stay competitive? I think you need to do a deep evaluation to understand that. And eventually

20:47 it's just likely you're going to have to pick one. So I think also right now, most of these companies are they're opening up war chests to be able to gain market share. And if you're in a position where you can pick a partner now, I think you can have a lot of negotiation power to go with a full fledged platform at this moment. Bernard mentioned, maybe it gets more commoditized in the future too, and you'll be able to negotiate, but you'll always be able to reevaluate that. But I think right now, compared to getting point solutions in each category, if you feel like your go-to-market

21:29 organization is able to pick one of these platforms, I'm sure you can get a pretty good deal.

21:36Wrap-up: now what?

21:36 Well, let's go ahead and wrap this one up. I know this was a big topic. We only barely scratched the surface of it. There's so much more to go into, and it would take a lifetime to evaluate every single tool that's on the market and know exactly which one's better than which. LeanScale's the RevOps company, and we implement these tools all day long, and still keeping up with the new players and the new features is a really challenging task. So we know it's a lot to go through. The key takeaways, Clary acquired group, let's see what happens. Do they become a

22:13 real contender in the space? Do they integrate really well? And do they make the most of bringing those best-in-class category solutions together to make a really powerful platform yet to be seen? One thing that's for sure, there's going to be more consolidation. And it's very likely that it's going to be much more affordable for you to invest in a platform than to disperse your tech stack across a bunch of point solutions. So keeping your eyes on that trend will be really important. Do your own due diligence, test the tools, stay connected as you can, reach out to LeanScale if

22:48 you want to get our opinion as well. But I think it's going to be a really interesting time. Bernardo Cameron, thank you so much. Great topic. And we'll probably have a follow-up to see how this goes. Thank you for listening to this episode. If you like the discussion, please like, share, and subscribe to wherever you listen to podcasts so you never miss a new episode.