The LeanScale Podcast · Episode 2

How to Measure New Business With Usage-Based Pricing

Bernardo Alves on valuing new business and pipeline when nothing is committed

Bernardo Alves · Engagement Manager, LeanScale · LeanScale Hosted by Anthony Enrico
Published Updated 00:10:01 8 min read 1,664 words
Consumption Revenue Pricing & Packaging Forecasting Revenue Operations Sales Compensation
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Executive Summary

The one-paragraph brief, extended

Why this conversation matters — and who should spend the hour.

Usage-based pricing is winning because it is the easiest possible buying experience — no commitment, use as much or as little as you need, stop whenever you want — and because it lets the business capture upside when customers consume more than expected. Companies that adopt it tend to grow faster than committed-contract businesses, precisely because price tracks the value a customer is actually extracting. But that same flexibility creates a hard operational problem that most teams underestimate: how do you measure and report new business when a deal you just closed may be worth a fortune and yet is contractually worth zero on day one?

In this short, practical episode, LeanScale co-founder Anthony Enrico sits down with engagement manager Bernardo Alves — who lived this problem at a solely usage-based company before joining LeanScale, at times alongside Anthony himself — to work through both the pain and the playbook. The centerpiece is a war story: the team closed a major financial institution with seven-figure upside, then watched it report as a $0 deal the next quarter because none of the revenue was committed. They got no credit for landing a logo that would meaningfully move the company's valuation. The two unpack why this happens (unpredictability, uncertain ramp, no booking to point to), and the seductive but self-defeating fix teams reach for: discounting the per-unit price just to lock a slice of usage into a committed contract — which sacrifices real margin for a security blanket, since the customer was going to consume what they consume regardless.

The fix is a three-part methodology. First, assign every usage-based deal an expected future value — an EACV (Expected Annual Contract Value) or EARR (Expected Annual Recurring Revenue) — even when zero dollars are committed, so the deal can be communicated and forecast. Second, track those estimates against actuals, at least through the first year, so you learn where you over- or under-called and build the credibility to report those numbers to investors and stakeholders. Third, ground the estimate in a baseline of data — usage trends from similar customers and from the first three, six, and nine months of an account — then marry that data with the judgment of reps who ran discovery. Data won't give you the perfect answer, but it gets you one step closer to the truth. The episode is aimed at founders, RevOps and revenue leaders, and sales teams building a usage-based motion, and it closes by teeing up a thornier follow-up: how (and whether) to build commission plans on top of these expected values.

Key Takeaways

9 things worth stealing

The load-bearing ideas, each with the business implication and who should care.

01

Usage-based pricing wins because it aligns price with value extracted — for both sides

For the customer it's the easiest buying experience there is: no commitment, consume as you go, stop any time. For the business there's built-in upside when a customer uses more than expected. Because the model matches what the customer extracts with the credit the business gets, usage-based companies tend to grow faster than strictly committed-contract businesses.

Why it matters: If you sell a product whose value scales with use, a usage-based model can accelerate growth and lower the barrier to buy — but you're trading contractual predictability for that flexibility, and you have to plan for the measurement problem it creates.

FoundersRevenue ExecutivesSales Leaders
02

The core problem: a deal can be worth a fortune and score as zero on day one

Because revenue only recognizes on usage, a freshly closed usage-based deal has no committed value to report. You may have an intrinsic sense of its potential, but you don't know when the customer will realize it, how long they'll take to ramp, or whether they'll shut off entirely. Communicating the future value of something that walked in the door today is far trickier than a committed booking backed by a contract.

Why it matters: New-business reporting built for committed contracts will systematically undercount your best usage-based lands. You need a way to represent uncommitted value before your scoreboard punishes the exact deals that matter most.

RevOps LeadersRevenue ExecutivesFounders
03

Measure new business on two axes: what you closed and what your pipeline is worth

Bernardo frames the challenge as two related measurement problems — quantifying the value of business you've already closed, and quantifying the value sitting in pipeline. Both are hard under usage-based pricing because neither has a committed number attached, yet both drive how the business reports and forecasts.

Why it matters: Don't just solve closed-won valuation; apply the same expected-value discipline to pipeline so forecasts and coverage aren't silently distorted by uncommitted deals.

RevOps LeadersSales LeadersRevenue Executives
04

The $0-deal war story: closing a giant and getting reamed for it

Anthony and Bernardo's team celebrated closing a major financial institution with potential seven-figure upside — then reported it the next quarter as a zero-dollar deal because none of it was committed. They got no credit for a logo that would add extreme value to the company's valuation, and got 'completely reamed' on the new-business number.

Why it matters: Without an agreed expected-value methodology, your best sellers get penalized for landing your most valuable customers. Fix the measurement before it demoralizes the team and hides real progress from leadership.

Revenue ExecutivesRevOps LeadersSales Leaders
05

Don't discount per-unit price just to lock in a committed contract

The tempting reaction to the $0-deal problem is to force some usage into a committed contract — e.g., lock the customer into 25% of expected volume in exchange for a 10% price cut. Bernardo warns this usually loses real margin for nothing: you gave up 10% for a security blanket internal stakeholders didn't even value, because the customer was going to consume what they consume anyway. You rarely protect the downside; you just discount the upside.

Why it matters: Reserve commitment-for-discount deals for cases where they're genuinely necessary. In most usage-based situations, converting to committed at a discount destroys margin without meaningfully de-risking the account.

Sales LeadersRevenue ExecutivesFounders
06

Fix #1 — assign every deal an expected future value (EACV / EARR)

For each usage-based deal, assign an expected annual contract value (EACV) or expected annual recurring revenue (EARR) — an informed estimate of what it will be worth over the first 12 months (or your chosen period) even if zero dollars are committed. Without it you're stuck saying 'we closed the big one — what's it worth? We'll see.'

Why it matters: An expected-value field turns unrecognized, uncommitted deals into something you can communicate, forecast, and manage against. It's the foundational unit for reporting new business in a consumption model.

RevOps LeadersRevenue ExecutivesFounders
07

Fix #2 — track actuals against your expectations, at least through year one

An expected value is only useful if you check it against reality. Depending on the business, track actuals daily, monthly, or otherwise, but at minimum for the first year, and ask: did we overperform, or are we way off — did they use only 5% of what we thought? Those variances are learning opportunities that make the next estimate better and build the trust to report these numbers to investors and stakeholders.

Why it matters: Build a closed-loop measurement habit: estimate, then reconcile. The discipline of reconciling expected vs. actual is what earns your consumption numbers credibility with a board or the public markets.

RevOps LeadersRevenue ExecutivesCustomer Success
08

Fix #3 — ground estimates in a data baseline, then marry it with rep judgment

Start every expected value from a baseline of data: usage trends from similar companies and from the first three, six, and nine months of a customer's life. Bake that into the estimation methodology, gather more data throughout the sales process, and apply the right safeguards and discounts. Then empower and trust reps — if your discovery is solid, they're the best source of customer context. Marrying a data-backed estimate with reps' subjective read lands you in the ballpark.

Why it matters: Neither pure data nor pure gut is enough. A consistent method that combines historical usage baselines with disciplined rep input gets you close, improves over time, and — as Anthony puts it — gets you one step closer to the truth even if it's never perfect.

RevOps LeadersSales LeadersRevenue Executives
09

Paying reps on expected value is the hard next problem — get the estimate right first

You want reps' accuracy because they know the account best, but whether you should attach commission dollars to an expected (uncommitted) value is a separate, trickier question. Anthony flags commission plans for usage-based companies as a future topic, noting it 'gets a little tricky real quick.'

Why it matters: Separate measurement from compensation. Nail a trustworthy expected-value methodology before you decide how much of it — if any — to pay reps on, or you'll compound estimation error with comp disputes.

RevOps LeadersSales LeadersRevenue Executives
Frameworks Discussed

4 named models

Every framework Jimmy names, defined and time-stamped.

Expected Annual Contract Value / Expected Annual Recurring Revenue (EACV / EARR)

06:09

An informed estimate of what a usage-based deal will be worth over its first 12 months (or a chosen period), assigned even when zero dollars are contractually committed, so the deal can be reported, forecast, and managed.

Because usage-based deals have no committed booking, EACV/EARR is the unit that lets a company communicate the value of new business and pipeline. Without it, a just-closed 'big one' is unquantifiable — 'what's it worth? we'll see.'

Track Expected Value Against Actuals

06:50

A closed-loop discipline of tracking each deal's real consumption against its assigned expected value — daily, monthly, or otherwise, but at least through the first year — to see where estimates over- or under-called.

Variances (e.g., a customer using only 5% of the estimate) are learning opportunities that sharpen future estimates and build the credibility needed to report consumption numbers to investors, boards, and public-market stakeholders.

Data Baseline + Rep Judgment

08:07

A method for estimating expected value that starts from a data baseline — usage trends of similar companies and of a customer's first three, six, and nine months — then layers in rep discovery, safeguards, and discounts to land a defensible number.

Marrying a data-backed baseline with reps' subjective, discovery-informed read produces estimates that usually fall in the ballpark and improve over time. Data won't be perfect, but it gets you one step closer to the truth.

The Commitment-for-Discount Trap

04:57

The anti-pattern of forcing usage into a committed contract by discounting the per-unit price — e.g., committing 25% of expected volume for a 10% price cut — to buy reporting predictability.

It usually loses real margin for nothing: the customer consumes what they'll consume regardless, so you rarely protect the downside and simply discount the upside in exchange for a security blanket no one internally valued.

Best Quotes

12 lines worth clipping

Pulled verbatim. Copy or share any of them.

“I used to work at a solely usage-based company, and we attempted a transition to more sustainable revenue in terms of contracted rates, and there's some pitfalls there.”
Bernardo Alves 00:20
“It's a very easy buying experience for the consumer. You don't have a commitment. You can use as you go whatever feels right, and if you need to stop, you can do so at any time.”
Bernardo Alves 00:54
“Communicating what the future value is of something that came into the door today is significantly trickier than something that's committed and coming in with a booking that you have a contract for.”
Bernardo Alves 03:22
“When we went to go report our new business performance the next quarter, it showed up as a zero-dollar deal because none of it was committed.”
Anthony Enrico 04:33
“We got completely reamed for that result and got no credit for closing a major financial institution — something that was going to add extreme levels of valuation to the company.”
Anthony Enrico 04:33
“We just lost 10 percent. We didn't gain anything from it outside of a security blanket that no one on the internal side thought was going to matter anyway.”
Bernardo Alves 05:35
“Whether you commit it or not, there's very few times where you significantly protect any downside of it. You just discount the upside.”
Bernardo Alves 05:35
“For usage-based, you're probably going to want to assign an expected future value. We've seen it called EACV — expected annual contract value.”
Bernardo Alves 06:09
“It's very important to track how that is actually turning out in reality. At the very least within the first year, track actuals against that.”
Bernardo Alves 06:50
“Data is not going to give you the perfect answer, but it does get you one step closer to the truth.”
Anthony Enrico 07:29
“Go look at the usage trends from similar companies, go look at the usage trends from the first three, six, nine months of a customer, and then bake that into your methodology of estimating the value of that account.”
Anthony Enrico 08:07
“When you marry those two — a data-backed and a subjective basis — you're usually going to fall somewhere in the ballpark.”
Bernardo Alves 08:48
Practical Advice

What should you actually do?

The playbook, split by the seat you sit in.

Founders

  • If your value scales with usage, a usage-based model can grow faster than committed contracts — but budget for the measurement problem before you adopt it, not after your first big uncommitted land reports as zero.
  • Stand up an expected-value methodology (EACV/EARR) early so you can communicate new-business value to your board and investors even when nothing is contractually committed.
  • Resist the reflex to convert usage into committed contracts at a discount; you usually give up real margin for predictability that doesn't change what the customer consumes.

RevOps Leaders

  • Add an expected-value field (EACV/EARR) to every usage-based deal — an informed 12-month estimate — so uncommitted deals are reportable and forecastable instead of scoring as zero.
  • Build a closed loop: reconcile expected value against actuals at least through the first year, and treat every variance as a learning input that sharpens the next estimate.
  • Ground estimates in a data baseline (similar-company usage and a customer's first 3/6/9 months), then apply safeguards and discounts for a defensible number.
  • Solve pipeline valuation with the same discipline, not just closed-won, so coverage and forecasts aren't distorted by uncommitted deals.

Sales Leaders

  • Empower and trust reps as the best source of account context — if your discovery process is solid and you're scoping adequately, their read is a critical input to the expected value.
  • Marry rep judgment with the data baseline rather than choosing one; the combination usually lands you in the ballpark and improves over time.
  • Don't chase a committed-contract-for-discount deal to make a number look better — it typically discounts the upside without protecting the downside.

Revenue Executives

  • Fix new-business measurement before it penalizes your best sellers for landing your most valuable, uncommitted logos.
  • Use reconciled expected-vs-actual data to build the credibility to report consumption numbers to investors and the board.
  • Keep measurement and compensation separate at first — get the expected-value estimate trustworthy before deciding how much of it, if any, to pay reps on.
Operations Takeaways

By function

The same conversation, filtered for RevOps, pipeline/marketing ops, and customer ops.

Revenue Operations

  • Expected value is the reporting unit. Assign every usage-based deal an EACV/EARR so uncommitted deals are reportable and forecastable instead of scoring as zero on the new-business board.
  • Close the loop. Reconcile expected value against actuals at least through the first year; variances are the learning signal that improves the next estimate and earns the number credibility.
  • Baseline then adjust. Start from similar-company usage and a customer's first 3/6/9 months, then layer rep discovery, safeguards, and discounts for a defensible estimate.
  • Value the pipeline too. Apply the same expected-value discipline to pipeline, not just closed-won, so forecasts and coverage aren't distorted by uncommitted deals.
  • Separate measurement from comp. Get the expected-value methodology trustworthy before deciding how much of it, if any, to attach commission dollars to.

Pipeline & Marketing Ops

  • Two measurement problems. Usage-based teams must value both what they've closed and what's in pipeline — neither carries a committed number, so both need an expected-value estimate.
  • Uncommitted ≠ worthless. A deal with zero committed dollars can be the most valuable logo you land; don't let committed-contract reporting hide it.
  • Data throughout the cycle. Gather usage signals across the sales process so the expected value on a pipeline deal is informed by discovery, not a guess.
  • Consistency beats precision. A consistent estimation method, reconciled over time, keeps pipeline valuation in the ballpark even though it will never be perfect.
Metrics Mentioned

The numbers, with context

$0 (seven-figure potential)
Reported value of a landed logo

A major financial institution with potential seven-figure upside reported as a zero-dollar deal the next quarter because none of it was committed.

25% committed for a 10% price cut
Commitment-for-discount trap

Locking 25% of expected volume into a committed contract in exchange for a 10% discount lost real margin for a security blanket that didn't de-risk the account.

First 3 / 6 / 9 months
Usage-baseline windows

Recommended lookback windows on a customer's early usage trends (plus similar-company trends) to baseline an expected-value estimate.

At least the first year
Estimate reconciliation window

Track actual consumption against the assigned expected value at minimum through year one to learn where estimates over- or under-called.

Entities

Companies, people & tools mentioned

Auto-extracted and linked into the knowledge graph.

Companies

LeanScaleGTM Operations

The RevOps firm behind the podcast; Bernardo is an engagement manager and senior consultant, and the methodology (EACV/EARR, expected-vs-actual tracking, data baselines) is what LeanScale recommends to customers running usage-based models.

00:20 · 08:07Company →

People

Bernardo Alvesguest

Engagement manager at LeanScale; came up through customer success into operations and business intelligence, focused on attribution and usage-based tracking.

Engagement Manager, LeanScaleProfile →
Anthony Enricohost

Co-founder of LeanScale and host of The LeanScale Podcast.

Co-FounderProfile →

Tools & software

Related LeanScale Services

Where this shows up in the work

Consumption & Usage-Based Modeling

Quota design, hunter/farmer structures, and unit economics for usage-based businesses.

The episode is a hands-on clinic on valuing new business under usage-based pricing — EACV/EARR, baselines, and expected-vs-actual tracking are core LeanScale consumption work.

Forecasting & ARR Definition

Define a raise-worthy ARR and build a reliable consumption forecast across finance, data science, and go-to-market.

Assigning and reconciling expected value is the foundation of a defensible consumption forecast and a raise-worthy ARR definition.

Fractional RevOps

Embedded, field-facing RevOps leadership and execution — the operator model Jimmy describes, delivered as a service.

Standing up the measurement system, safeguards, and rep-input process for uncommitted deals is exactly the embedded RevOps work LeanScale delivers.

Frequently Asked Questions

Straight answers

Generated from the conversation, marked up for search and AI extraction.

How do you measure new business under a usage-based pricing model?

Assign each deal an expected future value — an EACV (Expected Annual Contract Value) or EARR (Expected Annual Recurring Revenue) — even when zero dollars are contractually committed. Ground the estimate in a data baseline (usage trends from similar customers and from an account's first three, six, and nine months), refine it with rep discovery, apply safeguards and discounts, then track that estimate against actual consumption at least through the first year.

Why can a big usage-based deal show up as zero dollars of new business?

Because usage-based revenue only recognizes when the customer actually consumes the product, a freshly closed deal has no committed contract value to report. Anthony and Bernardo's team closed a major financial institution with seven-figure potential and it reported the next quarter as a $0 deal because none of it was committed — so they got no credit for a highly valuable land. An expected-value methodology (EACV/EARR) exists to prevent exactly that.

What is EACV / EARR?

EACV (Expected Annual Contract Value) and EARR (Expected Annual Recurring Revenue) are informed estimates of what a usage-based deal will be worth over its first 12 months (or a chosen period), assigned even when nothing is contractually committed. They give teams a unit of value to report, forecast, and manage against when there's no committed booking to point to.

Should you lock usage-based customers into committed contracts at a discount?

Usually no. Discounting the per-unit price to force some usage into a committed contract — for example, committing 25% of expected volume for a 10% price cut — typically loses real margin for a security blanket that doesn't de-risk the account. The customer consumes what they'll consume regardless, so you rarely protect the downside and mostly just discount the upside. Reserve it for cases where it's genuinely necessary.

How do you estimate the expected value of a usage-based account?

Start from a data baseline: usage trends of similar companies and of the customer's first three, six, and nine months. Bake that into a consistent methodology, gather more usage data throughout the sales process, and apply the right safeguards and discounts. Then combine that data-backed baseline with the judgment of reps who ran discovery — marrying the objective and subjective inputs usually lands you in the ballpark, and it improves as you accumulate actuals.

Why track actuals against your expected value?

Because an estimate is only useful if you check it against reality. Tracking actual consumption against the assigned expected value — daily, monthly, or otherwise, but at least through the first year — shows where you over- or under-called (a customer might use only 5% of what you projected). Those variances are learning opportunities that sharpen future estimates and build the credibility to report consumption numbers to investors, boards, and public-market stakeholders.

Should you pay sales reps commission on uncommitted, expected value?

It's a genuinely tricky question the episode flags for a future discussion. You want reps' input because they know the account best, but attaching commission dollars to an uncommitted expected value is separate from simply measuring it. The guidance is to keep measurement and compensation apart at first: make the expected-value estimate trustworthy before deciding how much of it, if any, to pay reps on.

Timeline

Jump through the conversation

Click any chapter to open it in the transcript.

00:00Cold open 00:20Meet Bernardo Alves + why usage-based pricing is winning 02:05What makes usage-based revenue hard to measure 03:54The $0 deal: a seven-figure land that scored as nothing 04:57The commitment-for-discount trap 06:09Fix #1: assign an expected value (EACV / EARR) 06:50Fix #2: track actuals against expectations 08:07Fix #3: data baselines + trusting your reps 09:21What's next: commissions for usage-based companies
Full Transcript

The whole conversation

Broken into chapters, searchable, verbatim from the audio. Speakers inferred (not diarized).

Transcript as markdown ↓ Whole episode as markdown ↓
00:00Cold open

0:00 Hi, I'm Anthony. Welcome to The LeanScale Podcast, where we talk about everything RevOps. Thanks for listening.

00:20Meet Bernardo Alves + why usage-based pricing is winning

0:20 All right. Welcome, everybody. I'm really excited to go into today's topic. We're going to be talking about usage-based pricing and what to do about it to measure your new business. With me today is Bernardo Alves, and he's one of the top consultants with The LeanScale team. Bernardo, why don't you give yourself an introduction? Yeah, absolutely. I'm Bernardo, engagement manager here at LeanScale. It feels like this topic is pretty close to home. I used to work at a solely usage-based company, and we attempted a transition to more sustainable revenue in terms

0:54 of contracted rates, and there's some pitfalls there, so excited to cover those and talk a little bit more about the experience. Absolutely. I think what would be a good way to ground this topic is to talk about why is usage-based pricing becoming so popular, and why do we see so many companies leveraging it? Yeah, absolutely. I think the biggest thing is just how flexible it is, right? It's a very easy buying experience from the consumer, right? You don't have a commitment. You can use as you go whatever feels right, and if you need to stop, you can do so at any time.

1:28 What more can you ask as a customer? You're not locked into a raid or anything like that. It offers tremendous flexibility, and then on the business side, there's always the upside, right? Your contracts that have usage-based agreements usually have the potential to overperform. Somebody might use more than they expected, so you reap the benefits there as well, so despite its volatility, it offers certain benefits to both parties as well as just being easy to get into. Yeah, and there's a lot of data that shows that companies that implement the usage-based pricing model actually experience more growth than strictly committed contract

02:05What makes usage-based revenue hard to measure

2:05 models, and I think it makes sense because you completely match what the consumer is extracting value out of your service or product from and the credit that the business gets for delivering that service or product. Absolutely. So it's a model that makes sense for the business. It's a model that makes sense for the consumer. What's difficult about it? Yeah, so the biggest thing is communicating that data, right? I think most of us are coming from an environment in which predictability is usually appreciated by the business, whether you have a board of investors

2:48 that you're reporting to or if you're a public company in which people expect to see results, having it all be flexible and up in the air. Not exactly something that people are very comfortable with, so that's challenge number one from a business perspective. It's unpredictable. There's ways of forecasting it, but it's not always the easiest. The second one is communicating new business acquisitions, right? You don't know what that potential could be. You might have an intrinsic sense, but you're not sure when the customer is going to realize it, how long it

3:22 will take for them to ramp. They could shut off at any moment. So communicating what the future value is of something that came into the door today is significantly trickier than something that's committed and coming in with a booking that you have a contract for, where you can just say, yeah, over the course of this 12-month period, we're going to realize at least as much out of this customer. I think that's the biggest thing, measuring new business and two aspects of new business. One, measuring how much you've closed one and then measuring what your pipeline is,

03:54The $0 deal: a seven-figure land that scored as nothing

3:54 I think is just extremely difficult. And I can give a good example of this. So when I was working in Bernardo, for those listening, Bernardo and I worked at the same company, so went through some of the same, we'll call them opportunities of learning with usage-based companies. But one example that really sticks out to me is we were celebrating a massive deal. We just closed a major financial institution. We knew that the upside on this deal could be massive. It could be a potential seven-figure deal for the company. And when we went to go report our new business

4:33 performance the next quarter, it showed up as a zero dollar deal because none of it was committed. And I think we got completely reamed for having that result and got no credit for closing major financial institutions, something that was going to add extreme levels of valuation to the company.

04:57The commitment-for-discount trap

4:57 That sucks. It absolutely blows, doesn't it? And I think one of the unintended consequences that you should stay away from, don't be the person that does it unless it's absolutely necessary, is feeling the need to lock some of that into a committed contract while sacrificing your per unit price. That was a big push that stemmed from that horrible experience, which was, okay, we know that they're going to use this much. Let's lock them in for 25 percent of what we expect and give them a discount of 10 percent on the price. We just lost 10 percent. We didn't gain

5:35 anything from it outside of a security blanket that no one on the internal side thought was going to matter anyway. We knew what they were going to use. That's right. That's right. Because the customer is going to use as much as they're going to use anyway. Right. So whether you commit it or not, there's very few times where you significantly protected any downside of it. You just discount it upside. Okay. So what do we do about it? Yeah, I think that there's kind of three things that you can do. The first one is for usage base, you're probably going to want to

06:09Fix #1: assign an expected value (EACV / EARR)

6:09 assign an expected future value. We've seen it called EACV in the past. That just means expected annual contract value or EAR or something like that. But some kind of informed decision of what do you think this will be worth over the first 12 months or whatever period you're looking at? Got it. So even if you have zero committed. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Otherwise, it's hard to communicate the value of that deal. And you run into those situations where it's, hey, we just close the big one. Okay. What's it worth? We'll see. Right. You don't want to be the guy in that position. So the next thing is EACVs are nice, right? You should have an expected

06:50Fix #2: track actuals against expectations

6:50 future value, but it's very important to track how that is actually turning out in reality. And depending on your business and your needs, you might need to do it on a monthly basis, a daily, whatever it may be. But at least at the very least within the first year, track actuals against that, right? I think it's really important from the business, from commission's perspective and understanding where you sit based on those original expectations to see, did we overperform on that expectation? Are we way off on the low side? They use only 5% of what we thought they would be. Because those are learning opportunities and they will

7:29 inform how you do this better in the future and build you that trust to communicate that data with whoever might need it further down the pipeline, investors, company stakeholders, anything like that in the future. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And something we talk about a lot is data is not going to give you the perfect answer, but it does get you one step closer to the truth. So if you can start to value some of those companies and start to get a closer idea for what they're worth to the business, I think that's really important. And something something that we recommend to our customers when you're building this concept of expected

08:07Fix #3: data baselines + trusting your reps

8:07 annual contract value or expected annual recurring revenue from an account. The first thing that we recommend is start with the baseline of data. So go look at the usage trends from similar companies, go look at the usage trends from the first three, six, nine months of a customer, and then bake that into your methodology of estimating the value of that account. So look at your past data, get some data throughout the sales process. It should absolutely be a discussion. I'm sure it is, but if it's not, implement that immediately. And then put in the right level of safeguards and

8:48 discounts to make it as accurate as possible, which is the best you can do. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, empower and trust your reps too, right? If you have faith in your discovery process, and you're adequately scoping things, they are going to be the best resources in terms of the customers talking about. So when you marry those two kind of ideologies, and you have a data backed and a subjective basis, you're usually going to fall somewhere in the ballpark. Obviously, it's not going to be perfect. Hopefully, it's on the positive side. And they unlock new opportunities

09:21What's next: commissions for usage-based companies

9:21 that you know, weren't scoped out at the beginning. But as long as you have a consistent way of tackling this, you're usually in a pretty good spot. Yeah, and something we're not going to talk about today, but we will in the future is commission plans for usage based companies. So you want to get the accuracy from the reps, they're the best people who know it. But do you want to put dollars to it? Maybe not. Yeah, that gets a little bit tricky real quick, doesn't it? Awesome. Well, Bernardo, thank you so much. I think this is really valuable information. Appreciate you spending time on it. And we'll catch you on the next one.

9:54 Awesome. Thank you so much, Anthony.