---
title: "From Physics to Fixing Sales: How Amplemarket Is Rewriting GTM"
episode: 47
podcast: "The LeanScale Podcast"
publisher: "LeanScale"
guest: "Mica"
guest_title: "Founder & CEO"
date_published: 2025-10-29
date_modified: 2026-07-22
duration: 01:01:11
word_count: 12234
topics: ["outbound-sales", "ai-in-gtm", "gtm-strategy", "sales-enablement", "revenue-operations"]
canonical_url: https://leanscale-knowledge-hub.netlify.app/podcast/mica-amplemarket-rewriting-gtm/
source: "LeanScale Podcast Knowledge Hub — https://leanscale-knowledge-hub.netlify.app"
license: "Free to quote and cite with attribution to The LeanScale Podcast."
---

# From Physics to Fixing Sales: How Amplemarket Is Rewriting GTM — Full Transcript

> Episode 47 of The LeanScale Podcast, with Mica.
> Published October 29, 2025 · 01:01:11 · 12,234 words.
> Machine-transcribed and **not diarized** — speaker attribution is inferred, so verify
> attribution against the audio before quoting a specific person.
> Structured breakdown: https://leanscale-knowledge-hub.netlify.app/podcast/mica-amplemarket-rewriting-gtm/

## 00:00 — Intro: Amplemarket, LeanScale's \#1 GTM tool

**[0:00]** (logo whooshing) Mika, I am pumped for this. This is a long time overdue. So today we have Mika, founder, CEO of Ample Market. Ample Market is LeanScale's number one go-to-market tool. We recommend it to all of our customers, and it's one that we actually use internally. So you guys have done an incredible job. I'm so impressed. The product is so elegant, powerful, capable, and I cannot wait to share this with the LeanScale team, with our customers, and with our entire audience. Mika, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for doing this, and I can't wait to dive in. - Thank you. Thank you for having me, and thank you for the kind words.

**[0:42]** You know, being a founder, as you know, like in building something that like users and customers truly appreciate, is never taken for granted. So I truly appreciate the kind words there. I'm super excited to do this with you, and then kind of like showcase what we've been building, and what we have coming. - Well, I appreciate you creating a killer product. So you've definitely made our lives easier. You've made a huge impact for a lot of our customers, and I think there's just so much to it. Before we go in, we always like to kick off, especially if we have a founder on the call. Would love to hear the founder story.

## 01:16 — Founder story: three scientists and the scientific method of sales

**[1:16]** I think you have a really unique story. You really connect with the problem that you're solving with AmpliMarket. I think it hasn't been linear for how you got here, which I think oftentimes can be a good thing. But would love to hear how AmpliMarket came to be, and what gave you the inspiration to get it started. - I love the non-linearity of things, right? I think the more founders I know are... It's like, it's the game that we're playing as founders. You're playing non-linear games, and although like the stories that you tell, they all like seem linear in hindsight, like they're not really, I think it's so interesting. The more founders you know,

**[1:54]** the more sort of linearity is not really a thing. But yeah, like my founder story, very typical, like we are three founders, me, Louis, and João. So we're two physicists and one computer scientist, so like not at all from a sales or growth background, which is like atypical. People always find this funny. Well, we always say that we wanted to apply the scientific method to sales, which is basically how we started kind of like doing sales ourselves. But AmpliMarket comes from like our own, experiencing the problem firsthand. So like AmpliMarket is not our first startup. We built something else, which was like in a fully different space, e-commerce space.

## 02:31 — Why the sales stack was 'fundamentally broken'

**[2:31]** But by actually starting like a growth motion for that one startup, we kind of like realized how broken, fundamentally broken the sales space was and the growth space. And you know, we were using an outreach and a poll and it was a meaningful and whatever, like you name them, I've tried them. I know the market very well. And to us, it was kind of like mind boggling that you needed to buy seven different vendors to run the simplest of sales motion. And so much of your time was actually spent context switching between platforms, right? And so much of the outcome that you're doing is still like a templatized, email heavy, sequence building thing,

**[3:09]** which to us didn't make sense. We kind of like thought it would make more sense to just like reach out to your buyer at the right time to the right channel, right? And with the pristine bespoke message. And that's like our obsession on a daily basis here. But yeah, so we tried all of them and at the time we were like, oh Jesus, let's buy some, let's build something that is consolidated. Let's build, you know, like a data company, an engagement company and a machine learning company. We didn't call it AI because AI at the time was not a thing. It was like daunting because it's like building three different companies and everybody's kind of going

## 03:41 — The contrarian bet and the self-driving-car analogy

**[3:41]** like the point solution route. And everybody's convinced that the point solution is the way to go. And we were very contrarian at the time. Like we believe that, you know, in the future, if you're going to have like true assistance for sales teams, you will need to have like a consolidated platform. And so the analogy that I usually like to give is the analogy of the self-driving car. And so we can, I live in San Francisco. So like I take Waymo's all the time. It's like Waymo's-- - I'm in Phoenix, Waymo's big here too. I take Way, much prefer over like Uber, Lyft, love it. - But as you can see, like, it's like the car was like

**[4:13]** thought from the ground up like this, right? The cameras, you can buy a camera software and a radar and like bolt all of that into the car and then like build your software. You kind of like need to think about like everything from scratch, all of the edge cases, all of the trade offs that you need to do when you're building that car. And then like the self-driving concept kind of like emerges from all of that. And that was our take. And we knew that it would take time. Turns out that, you know, building Apple market, like, I don't know if you can see my white hair, but like I had no white hair when I started building this.

**[4:42]** - I think we can add and crop some of this out. So that's okay, but nowhere is a badge of honor. - I call this wise, getting wiser. And you know, like the more white hair I have, the better Apple market is doing. So I like that correlation at least. - When you guys go public, we'll peg the stock price. How many white hairs Mika has? - Hopefully I still have hair.

**[5:08]** But yeah, it was like, you know, Apple markets just in a nutshell is us solving our own problem. And it still is, right? So Apple market is still like, people sometimes ask, like we dog food or champagne big time on Apple market. Like our entire tech stack for sales is Apple market and sales first, right? That's all we use. And to this day, 65% of our pipeline, close one is actually Apple market outbound generated. So yeah, so we build for ourselves first. And so we kind of like always experience the problems that you and your customers are experiencing. So we understand the market very well. - That's awesome, that's awesome. Well, I'd love to dive right in.

**[5:44]** I know there's so much to show, it's so powerful capable. So love to hop in, show it off and kind of go through some of those like typical use cases you'd see and then show off some of the power features that, you know, really differentiate you guys from all the other players in the market. - Let's do this, if you don't mind, I'll share my screen. And I'll start like, I just want to start like, I will go in the dashboard. Like I'd want to start in the homepage here because it's irrelevant to start here because there's like a fundamental core belief that we have that I wanted to start with, which is the fundamental core belief that we have

## 06:23 — AI plus human, not AI replacing the rep (meet Duo)

**[6:23]** is that AI is not going to displace the human right now. So we believe a lot in AI plus human collaboration. We don't believe in the tropes of like AI, PDRs and SDRs kind of like displacing the human. We took that very strong stance back in September of 2024. When we launched like this little guy over here, which is like, we call him Duo. Duo is kind of like your Tamagotchi, like your Pokemon. Like it's someone that is actually working alongside you and enabling and empower you as a rep. And because like, and this is fundamentally like, I believe that sales is about like exchanging trust and trust is a very human endeavor still.

**[6:58]** So I believe that in the future, even in, you know, like when we all have agents in our mailboxes, et cetera, like we're in the business of matchmaking, right? Empo market is in the business of like connecting buyers with sellers because ultimately buyers experience problems and sellers are providing solutions. And wouldn't it be beautiful that every time like this happens, you're made aware of like the best possible solution. So that's like the, that's the vision that we want to deliver on like helping the sellers sell closer to where the buyers are. And that's, we believe still like a very human endeavor.

**[7:30]** You and I get connected in our calendars by our AIs, but you and I talk and we decide whether or not it makes sense for us to work together. And we believe that, you know, for transactional things potentially, yeah, you can actually displace the human fully, but going forward and we see that in our customers and we work with, you know, big private companies all the way to fortune 200 companies. We see a lot of that like for non transactional deals, like the human in the loop is still like going to be the way to go. No, if you ask me about the world. - Yeah. And I'd like to add to that too, because I think

**[8:00]** there is a lot of fear that, hey, I was going to take over SDR as AEs, to your point, yes, maybe transactional, but when you're selling something, once you're getting into the six figures of deals, that's when, you know, that's when you really need to make sure somebody who the sales person is, is actually going to be your advocate internally, because sometimes you might have like roadmap considerations, you might have some executive sponsorship considerations and like, is there somebody who's going to be your advocate and call those shots for you? AI can't make decisions for a company. So you need to know like, is this person really going to

**[8:44]** have my back if things like go south or build on our opportunities? So I think in, especially in those high ticket item sales, there's always going to be room for the relationship. - I, you're preaching to the choir. I completely agree with you. And again, fundamentally it's about trust. You're going, when you're making a business decision, you're actually going to invest some money to get a specific return. You're not buying like a mug, right? So you're buying something fundamental and you're looking for an ROI and you know, in business sometimes things go wrong and like, who are you going to call? Like when things go, who's the person on the other side

## 09:24 — The Louis Vuitton metaphor: sales is exchanged trust

**[9:24]** that is going to be like your champion? And that's like, that's what sales fundamental is. I truly believe that sales fundamental is about that trust that is exchanged between humans. And even like, look, if you want to talk about like, and we can actually take these changes, but like, if you want to talk about even things like your experience when you go buy some luxury item versus when you go buy some non-luxury item, like I don't know, like let's go buy a bag at Louis Vuitton versus like, let's go buy a bag at whatever, like Zara or something. It's not the same experience, right? And it's like, if you're transactional, it's like even

**[9:57]** debatable whether it should not be just like, okay, I pick this thing up, I do self checkout and I'm gone, but you know, you're never going to do self checkout at Louis Vuitton, it's not about that. The purchasing experience is part of the full experience of getting the object, right? Do you know what I mean? Like in sales, especially non-transactional sales, there's something to be said about that FYI. I believe that's it. - No, it is part of it. Even just to like, close the loop on this tangent that we went on, which I think will prep the product demo still well, you're buying into, let's use Louis Vuitton as an example, you're buying into the history,

**[10:31]** you're buying into, you're seeing somebody else have so much reverence and care for a product that that's transferred to you. Like you're watching the person bring out the bag with gloves and like, hey, I'm not even going to put like a human oil print on this bag yet until like, you have a chance to touch it. Hey, this is kind of like a celebratory moment, we're going to pour you a glass of champagne like just while you're shopping. Like if you're seeing somebody else care about it so much that it makes you care about it too. So yeah, I think there's always like an aspect of that. That's such an extreme example,

**[11:05]** but there's an aspect of that in everything you do. - Yeah, but I agree. And that level of, that knowing you, the next time you go there, they will remember like that you have this favorite sparkling water thing and then will remember things about you and your family or the trip that you're going to. That like really bespoke unique tailored experiences is pretty amazing, right? So I think sales is also, if you can make it about that, it's also a lot about that. But yeah, I love the tangent, let's go back. (laughing) But I could do too. I think a lot about this in the future, right? So like even like, you know, for me AI is fundamentally

## 11:44 — AI unleashes creativity: more companies, smaller teams

**[11:44]** about like unleashing your creativity. Like if you think about it, like AI is not about like automation, sometimes people, like everybody's getting it wrong. AI to me is just about unleashing creativity and very creative individuals can now do way more bespoke things, especially in sales, right? But if you want to talk about non-sales, like think about like lovable or vzero or bolt.new, all of these companies, they allow people that are creative to actually make their ideas come alive, right? So like you could actually like the person working at the coffee shop that was actually priced out from like software building because they didn't know how to code.

**[12:22]** Now all of a sudden the spoken language, the coding language is basically the language that they speak and it doesn't even matter what language you're speaking because you can just talk to an AI and the AI can actually build your thing. Which is like, if you fast forward that like also into the future, there's going to be a freaking jump in terms of the number of companies that are actually going to be popping up because like a lot more people now are builders. So think about this in sales and just like to set the tone here because I think it's important like in sales, think about like companies as planets that need to be connected.

**[12:52]** So all of a sudden you have a lot more planets that need to be connected. And the truth is like these plants are going to be smaller because all of a sudden like you can actually do way more, your productivity per employee is actually increased. So sales teams are going to be smaller in size, but I believe that you'll see a lot more sales people in the market in the next 10 years. And the space between these planets is going to become way more opaque in a sense of like creating information is basically cost you $0. It's just like a prompt on chat TPT and you can create information. So like there's a lot more information to be captured.

**[13:25]** So the sales job is going to get harder, more companies to be selling into and smaller sales teams. We take all of that into consideration when we think about building ample market. And that's why we say like human plus AI. The AI is here to help you make sense of everything that happens in the world every 24 hours and actually brings that back to you, the individual and lets you decide what you want to do with it. - Yeah, and tying it to ample market so I know we're going to hop in. I think I feel very creative in ample market too. And I think you've unlocked things that we have wanted to do. Like we know what our ICP is, we know what our TAM is,

**[14:01]** we know who we want to target. We know like, we know what we would want to do, but just didn't have the tools to do it. Ample markets absolutely unlocked that for us. - I so love that, I so love to hear that. And just try diving into the dashboard here, but I just really love to unlock creativity and have people think more about better ways to engage with their buyers. I think my obsession is if you're going to have 10 meetings today, how do we make it so that you don't need to contact 10,000 people, right, exaggerating here? What if you could just reach out to the 10 people that are willing to talk with you today?

## 14:39 — The dashboard: a daily signal feed (Spotify meets Tinder)

**[14:39]** I'd say it's massive, it's very ambitious, but that's really how I like to operate. And to do that, you need to be creative. And creativity is like ultimately very human endeavor. But yeah, so logging into my Ample Market dashboard here. So this is actually like the dashboard that like Anthony, you're familiar with. But Ample Market, we make it so that when you land, we want to give you value straight away. So when you land every single day, every 24 hours, what you see with Ample Market is a feed of the accounts that are under your name or in your book of business. And a feed of signals that you or someone in your team

**[15:19]** deemed were interesting and kind of like tied to purchasing behavior. So every 24 hours, Ample Market is actually fetching the most relevant signals across like your book of business and helping you prioritize accounts. And it's actually bringing them into you. So that's what you see here on the left hand side. I like to call this the Spotify day list. So every single day you get like a new suggestion of songs. And so here, every single day you get like the most relevant accounts and individuals brought to you. And then if you match this to the right hand side, we're making this like a system of action on the right hand side.

**[15:53]** So Ample Market is actually suggesting how you should be engaging with this person. So I call this the Tinder mid sale. So you're deciding which leads you want to swipe right or left on, right? - Yep. - So it's Spotify mid Tinder here. But the beautiful thing is you see a lot of different signals. So like if I zoom in here real quick, okay, this, oops, sorry. This person here was visiting my website. This person here engaged with a post from Elad. Elad is one of my AEs. This person here is a past prospect that changed jobs. This person here was engaging with like Zoom Info as a competitor. This person here was visiting someone

## 16:28 — AI-recommended multi-channel sequences you can QA

**[16:28]** who's a LinkedIn profile that works at Ample Market. All right, so this person was engaging with a sales influencer. So there's some, this person was reviewing outreach on G2 and Ample Market picked it up. But Ample Market is picking it up, helping me prioritize every single one of these accounts. And it's telling me which individual you can actually map at the signal level. - Yep. - And then with that, Ample Market is actually telling me, hey, we believe that we recommend this eight step sequence. Here's what happened. This person was seeing, reviewing this person on G2. So we can actually let you QA.

**[17:01]** So if you click this, Ample Market allows you to go in here and say, okay, look, you can fully QA the signal here. You can fully take a look at what happened. So we picked that up. We're bringing you the signal and you're saying, hey, here's how we recommend you engage with genome. So your G2 review about outreach, you mentioned that it's user funding, but point it out after finishing a task, you can schedule another one, right? So it's actually bringing up the pain point from the review and trying to kind of like kickstart a conversation here. And as you can see, it's kind of like building this eight step sequence for you that is truly multi-channel.

**[17:35]** So Ample Market is not like only defaulting to like sending email. We allow you to build like sequences that are truly multi-channel, like so email steps, LinkedIn actions and co-calling steps. And so, and that's all powered by Ample Market, right? All within the platform. And in this case, like you can see that I'm suggesting a profile visit, a connection request, an email follow-up, a text message. And all of these things can be fully automated. As you can see here, Ample Market is actually currently executing LinkedIn tasks for me. But the beauty of this, like the beauty of like what you see here is like every body

**[18:08]** and every single account is massively unique and every signal is unique. So where I'm suggesting here an eight step sequence because they visited my profile and I'm actually visiting my website. In this case, when they engage with a lot and this was actually a signal that would be detected on LinkedIn, I'm actually suggesting stay on that channel. Stay on this channel because we know that this person is actually likely to engage on LinkedIn. - Yep. - Right, so every single, and it's a three step sequence now. If you go into this one, now it's a two step sequence. It's a past prospect that changed jobs. So we're actually making it like,

## 18:42 — One unified platform vs. seven point solutions

**[18:42]** Ample Market can actually understand from your previous outcomes what is actually better for every single one of these signals that we're bringing to you. So a past customer. - And I'm hoping, I just wanna pause right here just to highlight the significance of this. So typical point solution flow would be, you go to Zoom info, you go to something else, you pull your list of data, you upload it to your CRM, you connect it to something like an outreach or a sales loft. There you would have had predefined sequences that you would then upload people into. Sometimes you would have intent that you would layer into that.

**[19:22]** And then you'd take the intent and help enrich the list that you have and decide which sequence you wanna go throw them into. The fact that all of this is done in one, it's all done in one unified platform. You're automatically finding the intent, the reason to reach out. Because I think everybody's inboxes are probably experienced a 10x volume on LinkedIn and an email. And then a specific individualized custom sequence for that one person, nobody does that. That's mind blowing that you can pull it all together that elegantly. - And without almost any effort. And the cool thing, and I'll show you that, it's the creativity. Do decide, what do you want?

**[20:07]** How do you want to engage? What do you wanna do with a signal? It's so nice, it's so interesting. I'm built for the quota-carrying ramp. I don't care what name you give them. SDRs, BDRs, founders, EZAMs, I don't really care. But there's always going to be a person that carries a quota, that carries a book of business. And I just build for them because I want to empower them to be ultimately massively creative. It's so nice to be part of a good sales process. Even when we see people saying like, oh we're not interested, but best email ever. That makes my day, right? Like that makes my day. - Yeah, you did the most you could.

**[20:40]** And the human in the loop aspect of this. So cool, we got this. Now we have your sequence queued up here, ready to send. However, you may wanna put in some of your personalized context, although it's gonna be speaking in your language and everything. But you may wanna add something to it real quick. We get launch it, so you can make it so authentic. - Yeah, full power to the human, right? And so like, and I'll show you like a few things, but like this is actually like very much copying like, so like when you set up like an Empal Market account, Empal Market understands who your company is. So there's a blueprint that is set up like at the company level.

**[21:17]** But individually you and I, Anthony, can be very different. So maybe you're more of a storyteller, more of a concise guy, like to go straight to the point. So the way that we sell, even if we sell for the same company, we might be fundamentally different sellers. And that manifests into what you see with tool. So this little guy here, like this little guy here is like very individualized to you and to me. It's kind of like, it's your Pokemon. Like it's like, it's only yours and it grows with you. By the way, and it's actually learning with you. So for example, if I say dismiss this for whatever reason, it's actually asking me.

**[21:51]** So there's like reinforcement learning here. Why? It's asking me feedback and it's actually going to save that. So it's actually learn from everything that you do. Like you accept something without changes, we learn. You want to change something, we learn. You refuse something, we learn. So you will have here the most personalized and tailored sales and agent you can actually imagine. It's actually so personalized. Like look, for this sequence I'm doing, like for this person, for this single, I'm doing an 11 steps sequence when I'm actually doing call calls. And again, all of the scripts for these call calls are kind of pre-written for me.

**[22:25]** But when it's a past customer, I know that I'm connected with them. So I'm basically going to do some.

## 22:32 — Cloned-voice messages and true personalization

**[22:32]** So it's actually like, it knows me so well that it even knows my voice, right? So now Gabe was promoted and Gabe is going to receive an ample message saying, hey, send him a quick voice message because you've exchanged voice messages with him. So just do that. And so if I want to, I just click send and it's kind of like my voice. The text was written by an AI. The voice was kind of like copied by my AI. And now it's actually going to be dropped completely automatically there. - I just want to double click there because I feel like maybe you see this every day. So maybe you're not as impressed with it anymore. But I think for anybody watching,

**[23:10]** you go to Ample Market, you record messages, Ample Market learns your voice and then will recreate those messages with your actual voice and then build those automatically into the sequences. So that's a massive edge of breaking through the noise as well as coming up with that hyper personalized message. I mean, two things, one, the modality plus the personalization that you have, that's pretty unmatched. - The personalization is like so important to me, but like the modality, to your point, it's what I was telling you about the white hair is basically what gets us here. Because the modality, the fact that to do this,

**[23:54]** again, you need to think a system from the ground up. So like your multi-channel sequencing platform needs to be top notch. Your AI needs to be top notch. Your data needs to be top notch. Your signals platform needs to be top notch. Because signals, I'm showing you this, like and this is actually not rigid. You can do whatever you want, right? So, and like, for example, this, I'm capturing like a signal here for like an influencer, right, is actually posting it. Look at this, Ample Market is actually suggesting a generic test, which is kind of like a way, I call this like nurture post from thought leaders. And so it's actually having me create comments

**[24:27]** for LinkedIn posts. So it's actually helping me comment on posts. Because I want to get exposure to this person, but indirectly through their engagement with content on LinkedIn. I don't want to be the obvious guy that every time you do something, I want to connect with you. No, I want to comment on something that you like, because LinkedIn is actually going to promote my comment to you in your notifications. You're like, who is this Mika guy? Like there is commenting smart stuff on the posts that I'm liking. So I'm actually getting exposure to you through some of these actions. And that modality, the fact that you can think creatively

**[24:59]** about how you want to engage and where you want to engage. And even like, if you say like, okay, like, I'm going to engage on LinkedIn, but thinking about the medium there, like, is it, what is the medium? Is it text? Is it voice? Is it video? Because we also allow you to do video. So how do you want to do that? To actually stand out as the most tailored, personalized human person possible. And again, like we're like, think about this as kind of like, again, it's almost like an Iron Man suit. Like we want to just augment your powers as an individual seller. And again, like just stating the fact that I'm focusing a lot on like delivering delightful experiences

## 25:35 — Craft, care, and the harm of low-quality volume

**[25:35]** to these reps. And so before you said something that was interesting, like the craft at Louis Vuitton, the care that you put into building this, we put a lot of craft and care into everything that we built here. Very in tandem with like our users, we want to deliver a lot of value, but we want them to use a platform that they truly enjoy on a daily basis. And that makes their lives easier and more delightful. Like, because sales is such a freaking grind for most people. To your point, like you're going to zoom in for the download and you go to, and like at some point you go to zoom in for because you found a signal,

**[26:06]** but like it's the end of the day and you're tired and not basically, I don't have time. I just need to engage with these 50 people. I'm not going to personalize anything. And so you're just, you're just, you know, burning your domain, you're burning your leads, you're burning all of, you're burning your chances, right? And so like we want to do as much for you as possible. - I want to highlight this note because I don't think people realize this now. You can do so much damage if you amp up the volume of your outreach and it's not tuned in and it's not high quality. Putting out low quality outbound is not a small positive. It's potentially a negative.

**[26:43]** So if you're being lazy and just uploading a list, mass emailing everybody with generic emails, you're causing so much harm that you don't even realize because you only get one shot at a first impression. And if your first impression is half-assed copy that's overly generalized, they're just going to think your company doesn't care. And if this is how you show up in this process, how are you going to show up with your product or service that you're trying to deliver to? - I agree with you. But think about the reps, right? Think about like how you're enabling the reps to actually do a better job. It's so freaking hard. Hey, here's your quota.

**[27:21]** Right, they're not, they can't. And then they get like, because like you as a manager, like you're like, oh, look, I don't see your activity on LinkedIn. You need to dial 300 people. I only see 100. Like you didn't send all of your emails. It's like what you're asking from, like what we've been asking from them for the past years is just activity. You're not focusing on quality. You're just focusing on quantity. It's kind of like our fault. Like when we get here, like now like deliverability is like, is a tough game. Now Apple is actually going to send all of our calls to voicemail sort of, which I already do because I received so many call calls.

**[27:52]** We're just trying-- - I assume if you're not leaving me a voicemail, you don't know who I am. (laughing) - But you know what I mean? Like we're strengthening all of the signals because we focus on just like quantity, quantity, quantity instead of quality of outreach. And like if you spend enough time talking with the sellers and you find like the top 5%, they do quality outreach. But they're kind of like smart and organized and they have experience. But like, you know, young SCRs are like out of college. They know nothing. Now you say like, hey, come here, learn my company, learn my value props, learn sales, learn Zoom interval,

**[28:26]** learn outreach, learn all of these things. And now by the way, in three months, if you're not hitting quota, you're gone. So, you know, good luck. - It's, I know, it's the toughest job. It's the toughest job. - Well, one thing I was hoping you could dive into that I think people may see things like this, but I think the data gathering aspect of the ample market platform too, like you're so good on intent, you're so good on the sequencing, but I think the biggest part is, can we find the right people? Can we go like that matchmaking that you're talking about? So when you're just like mapping out some, like pulling a list through ample market,

## 28:47 — The data platform: a proprietary daily waterfall and CRM import

**[29:05]** I think you guys have done this in a really elegant way too. - I love that. By the way, like notice that like so far, we didn't even need to discuss email addresses and phone numbers, right? Revealing data or, you don't need to. Like it's in here somewhere. Like it's in here somewhere that we know the email of this person, right? And the phone number. Like, but you don't, we don't need to discuss that. It's kind of like, why should we be focusing on that thing right now? It doesn't matter. Like, it's like, it's taken care of. Like don't worry, it's in the background. But yeah, I love to, so again, ample market, many sections here. But again, we have data.

**[29:40]** We have like multi-channel engagement. We have like deliverability optimization. We focus a lot on kind of like making sure that you're not burning to that point, like through your mailboxes. I won't be going into everything, but like we can actually go into our searcher. And the searcher again, like if you think about AI, our searcher is our own searcher. Like we have our own data. So again, everybody talks about waterfall data providers. Ample market is built. We've built that our own proprietary waterfall and our own proprietary waterfall takes into consideration like any other public waterfalls that you find out there.

**[30:11]** But also like all of the data that our users like gathers through using ample market. So like if I give you a guest email and if you send the email through ample market, I ultimately will know the outcome of that email. So a guest email becomes verified, right? So like our data gets better with usage. So that the data like, look, I think we're all used to this. To kind of like seeing like the maps. - Yeah, we've seen that in Apollo. We've seen it in Zoom info. We've seen it in whatever, yep. - And it's kind of like, it's nice. - You have a few fun tricks though that others I think don't have. I like, like you can sometimes if you're selling

**[30:50]** into startups, you have like who their investors were. And I think pulling and things like that. I think one of my favorite things you have is being able to pull in a CRM list. 'Cause sometimes like we have already put so much work in like fine tuning, maybe a territory list or something like that. And so to be able to pull in like a CRM list, I think is huge. But anyway, yes, standard but a couple fun tricks. - And the CRM, I love that. It's especially true for like established organizations with established sales teams where so much rule sets have been established on the CRM. That is so freaking important for you

## 31:26 — Ask your data: building ICPs in natural language

**[31:26]** to actually just like focus on the right account. But here like again, the idea for the search or these filters like, it's kind of like an old school thing. Like it's the way that you used to be able to interact with them. And then we wanted to make this a bit easier. Like what if you could actually just ask data. And so like here, we could actually go and say, show me fine sales leaders at companies in California that are doing more than 5 million.

**[31:56]** It's almost like, okay, cool. And I have like, I have some typos there, whatever. - Yeah, leave the typos. Make sure like, actually, it means it. - I hope the demo gods are with me. As I was saying before, for bold or lovable, like the way that you build software is kind of like the spoken language. I think the way that you go about like building your ICPs or like a rep is thinking about like building their ICP is going to be like this, like you talk. So right, so we went from a list of 50 to 40 to now 6,000 people that match our search criteria. And we could take this a notch further. You can even say like that have open job positions

**[32:33]** for account executives. Or they've grown their team by more than 50%. So any filter that you see here, it's kind of like, see like, Amplemark is actually applying all of these filters completely automatically for us on top of our own database. Our database, again, as I said, is a waterfall. And we are very unique in a sense where like, we run daily data updates. So we don't batch data updates. So every single day, we're running between five to 10 million data updates on the Amplemarket platform. So it's kind of like a very, very much an alive entity, if you want. So this search is giving me 6,211 people. Maybe tomorrow we come back

**[33:12]** and it's actually 6,300 people because again, a lot more people have joined these companies, et cetera. Or more companies have like raised funds. - Well, and I like that you can just like fly in here to the left. Okay, I see what filters the AI applied. - Let me fine tune. Like maybe on the last round type, maybe I want to take out, seed, angel, venture round and just keep like a series A, series B type of stuff. - We were not specific, but we can actually go and then like be very specific, right? So again, we refine it more. It's like, you know, you have other cool filters, like, okay, LinkedIn networks, like, am I connected with these people?

**[33:50]** Show me the only the first degree connections. And this is demo account, but like if you have a team connected to Amplemarket, you can even ask like show me the people that are connected with my entire sales team. And so you can actually build this type of search. Then from here, by the way, like we were talking about this, like, but from here, the connection of this to an action is very easy. So you can either save this if you want and get alerts every time this changes. By the way, because this changes, it's a lie. Like it's, we're applying filters on top of like something that is a lie. - Yeah, new company raises around

## 34:21 — Best-in-class LinkedIn automation and cross-channel branching

**[34:21]** that new sales leader at build ops here, 100%. And so like, but if you wanted to engage, we could actually say, okay, cool. Let's go from here and let's set these people to kind of like an engagement sequence, right? If you want to, very easy. So like whatever, if you're building like sequences, like if you're still using the old school workflows, we can actually go in here and say, okay, now connect this search that I did like on Zoom info back into, I don't know, an outreach plus an hay reach sequence that is actually truly multi-channel and with calling steps. - Can I take a moment to just talk about,

**[34:55]** so most of these tools, when you have LinkedIn steps, they're really just tasks and they're manual, most of them. If you're like in an outreach type style tool. There are a couple that will do some automation and the automation is horrible or it's like semi-automated. Like you need to be logged in. I won't call out who I'm talking about, but you need to be logged into the platform in order for some of the automations to work. And then there are a few point solution LinkedIn tools, but you need to integrate that with all the other things. Like to just have a point solution for LinkedIn automation is really tough,

**[35:37]** but where are you getting the data and what are you doing? And is that buyer only living on LinkedIn or do you need email and calls and multimodal? So I think your LinkedIn automation, I actually think is the best in the market on top of being part of all the other capable aspects of the platform too. - Yeah, and thank you for that. I think it's really like the multi-channel aspect of things. Like if you're orchestrating a two multi-channel sequence, it's like, it's so hard. Like if you're using outreach with something else, like what happens if this happens on LinkedIn? What happens to the sequence that is going on on outreach,

**[36:15]** it's like these orchestrations are really, really hard. - They respond to my LinkedIn message, but then my email goes out. Like I didn't even see that. And then it looks terrible, yeah. - So it's not even about like setting them up, which okay, like whatever. Like you set them up with all of these like crazy patch together workflows, but like when something happens in one channel, what's going to happen to the other channel? With M4Markets, it's like you're building all of your channels like in the same space. So you can say, oh, look, I want to start my sequence with an email, but then like you go here and you say, okay, cool. Like I want to now go into,

**[36:51]** I don't know what action do you want to do, a like on last post? The cool thing about this, it's an automatic like on last post. And you can even say, I don't want to like posts that are older than 10 days, right? So you can actually do this. So I like, and then like you can say, look, now I want to try and move the conversation to LinkedIn. So you do a connection request. And then from here on out, again, same automated. Then you actually say like, oh, what happens if the connection request is accepted? Well, well, if it's accepted, I'll just default to moving my entire conversation now to LinkedIn. So talking about deliverability,

**[37:23]** no more like email for this person. Now, if the connection is not accepted, like what do you want to do? So like now you can actually do conditional branching across multiple channels very easily. So like now you can say like, okay, cool. Let's go like this person on this side, always emails. And I'm going to do a bunch of emails to this person, right? And then I'm whatever, like I'm going to finish the sequence with maybe we can actually do a message. And we can say, look, I have email credits. So I want to send them an email. So I want to maximize the value that I get for my Sales Nav account. By the way, this is actually such an interesting thing.

**[37:56]** Like, you know, marketing teams are spending $1 for LinkedIn message ads. And the sales teams are sitting on 150 email credits. So it's $150 that they're not using. So I always sell my team like for enterprise accounts. Again, LinkedIn emails are like a LinkedIn messages that costs us like one to $2 per message ad. So it's a way for you to maximize like the returns on like your Sales Nav investment. But I'm just showing you like right now we orchestrated a sequence that started with an email, did like some complex things on LinkedIn, like with a lot of logic here. If something happened there, and by the way,

**[38:32]** like we can say, look, I actually want to wait hours, like again, 10 hours for the connection to be accepted. And if it's accepted, let's go back and then smooth the conversation to messaging on LinkedIn. We're not going to put a load on email because we know that messages on LinkedIn get delivered. So they don't have like a deliverability concept. We just opened that channel. So let's just go there. And so these types of things, they seem like obvious, but it's like so freaking hard to do with a non, again, because I really want to say the fact like with a non consolidated platform, it's really hard to do. Like really, really hard.

**[39:08]** - I think it's, I think it's impossible. I'm going to go that far. I don't know, I don't know anyone who's set it up to this level that has patched together five tools without needing to spend so much on ops. Like you'd have, you would have teams dedicated to operating that. - And even then, like, and I'm saying, like these teams need to be very good. And I've met some of like work class like ops teams, but I'm telling you like even those, they set it up, but then when something happens in one channel, they struggle a lot with like keeping things in tune, right? - It's nearly impossible. - How does this platform communicate with the CRM, right?

**[39:47]** It's a bit crazy, but yeah. So that's like how you connect data to basically ample market sequences. And so now if you wanted to send this, like it would be so, so freaking easy. You can actually review all of your leads here. And as you can see, like we don't need to spend any time reviewing data or like finding phone numbers. And that's just like very, very of the past type of thing. Like you need to just like do the work, just do the work and then continue moving on. And by the way, even the first email, you can actually ask ample market to fully generate it with AI. Bespoke unique email to every single one of these individuals

**[40:24]** given certain things that you deem in your settings were important for you to connect with them. But then we can actually go there or we can go to, if you want to go to LinkedIn, we can actually show you some more fun things there. - Yeah, I think let's absolutely do that. - The cool thing too, like I was telling you about like the sales navigator and maximizations, like we can actually go, I love using SalesNet for like specific searches. And the things that I love to use it for is kind of like, show me people that are active on LinkedIn that are a part of like my accounts. And I don't have like my subset of accounts here right now already,

**[40:57]** but we can actually do some like very simple search here where we say let's do sales and let's do VPs,

**[41:10]** Vice President. And right now let's do people that have changed jobs and that are in North America. So like I like, so like with SalesNet, you can actually get access to a bit more advanced searches like the posted on LinkedIn, right? So you're basically looking for people that are actually LinkedIn active. And I love to do this search and then match this across my subset of accounts. And with Ample Market, like you can do like very easily, you can leverage all of your LinkedIn and you can take a look at the results that you get here. And then like you can actually call the Ample Market extension over here. And then you can say, look, okay, cool.

**[41:50]** Like I want, here we don't have email addresses, we don't have phone numbers, but you can say, look, help me select these individuals and either like export them to a list, which is like going to take 10 seconds, export them to a CSV or bring them over into the searcher. So you can say, bring them over into the searcher where we were just before. And then to your point, apply CRM filters, apply any other filter that you were using before. But as you can see now, we're bringing that context that you had on LinkedIn over here to the search. And then from here, I can still apply everything else that is available to me here

## 42:24 — The nurture play: give value before you ask

**[42:24]** to actually further refine this list. And, but one of my favorite things to do with like people that are actively posting on LinkedIn, that are part of like the accounts that I want my reps to target is to nurture them. So the way I nurture them is kind of like I select these and I add them to a sequence. And I have this thing called the nurturing sequence. Let me show you what that looks like. - Sure. - But it's a very bland sequence that likes posts. And then for a month, I'm just lacking your stuff. And then like I send you a connection request. So right now I can just do this, I select, and then I add them to the list and now basically,

**[42:58]** Amplemark is going to start liking the content from these individuals that my sales team is going to be reaching out to next month. And I'm just going to be top of mind for them. I'm like, oh, because the average post on LinkedIn has 30 likes, 50% are from the company. And so like, if you give a like, you're like 6%. - People love it. - 6% of all likes, like they're alone. People love it, right? So you're giving something. - Yeah, and I look at who likes my posts. Like it's not, it's not buried. So like I'm looking at it. Same, same, same. So that's like, again, another way to think about sales in a non-obvious selling way, in a nurturing way.

**[43:33]** Give value before you ask for something. And so, and Amplemark again, we can play around like, and again, here looking at Joe's profile, we can, whenever like you're doing things on LinkedIn, we really bring a lot of context into what you're doing here. So for example, for Joe, I could, since I'm connected, even send Joe like a LinkedIn video message. It's like LinkedIn channel, but the medium is going to be like a new, like very video-based channel. I can actually go here and then Amplemark allows me to just like find icebreakers between myself and Joe. And so like I can click this like based on a LinkedIn post, right?

**[44:11]** So, oh, I saw your engagement likes LinkedIn post about combination of Amplemark and this is focused on, we can click this. And every five seconds Amplemark is actually doing research on this person profile interest, right? And it's actually bringing like something to the forefront to me that actually allows me to understand whether or not like I want to connect with Joe. Because one thing that we noticed, and one thing that we noticed is that sales reps, they will want to use, again, they will want to use Duo for sure, but they will also want to do their own things. They do, it's like they want the self-driving car. They want the self-driving car.

**[44:47]** - But sometimes you want to steer. - Exactly, but sometimes they feel like driving, or like they feel like there's always something that they want to do. - I think a practical workflow, 'cause this is where I find it for myself. Like sometimes I'm on LinkedIn, I'm not in like prospecting mode. I'm in, oh, I'm just scrolling through things. I want to see like what the newest alerts are, whatever. Or I'm just going and I'm obsessed with checking on who's liking my posts. It's not that bad. But I'm on there just like looking at things. And then I see someone like, oh, that's an interesting person. Like I wondered, I should like put them into something.

**[45:28]** And then to have it like right there at my fingertips, rather than like, oh, 'cause sometimes I'm not like, I don't have, maybe I don't have the ample market open, but it's just like, okay, cool, it's right there. And then I could do something with it. - By the way, Anthony, like this is also like a cool, so I can actually go into your posts and see like I have all of these people liking your posts. And I can automatically just get them all back into ample market. Show me who's liking your posts, like let me get those 30 people. And as you can see here, now I have the list. And so I can just like, and for all of your posts, you can say like, hey, look,

**[46:04]** get me all of the individuals engaging with your posts. And you can even filter here straight away for like, you know, salespeople. And so like, okay, like who are the sales leaders kind of like engaging with this post? And you can add them to a list and you can say like, oh, this is a nurturing list. These people actually liking my posts. And I want to know who they are, right? So you can truly leverage ample market to do, to augment like your experience here on LinkedIn in a very seamless manner. And that's because like LinkedIn is the social network for like people, professional information. So we try to really make it easy for you

**[46:37]** to kind of like leverage all of the data that you have there. The cool thing too about Duo, like if we go back here into the signals, it's kind of like, if you want to create a signal where you collect all of your posts, it's as easy as just doing this. Like I go here and I say like, okay, you're the individual that I want to target. I've copied like your LinkedIn profile. And I can say it from Anthony. And so now I'm going to tell ample markets, like little agents here, monitor Anthony's posts for people that are liking them. And then just show me the individuals that are in sales. I just restrict those results, not to every,

**[47:18]** I don't want to know everybody, but I just want to know sales people. And then send those signals to me. And so like now tomorrow when I log in into ample market, your people, sales and revenue leaders engaging with your posts, if I do this, are going to be popping up in my Duo feed because they engage with the posts from you. - I love that. - Again, so to your point, like if you're looking at that, and if you wanted to do that like in an automated fashion just to bring you the information or the signal, you could do it. And here I just said like posts from you, I didn't even nudge the AI because here, you could just actually prompt the AI

**[47:55]** to do whatever you want. So maybe you don't want to build a sequence. Maybe you just want to do a profile visit to just understand what that person is. Or maybe you want to just create a generic task understanding who that person is like with all of their past job information. And Duo here can do all of that to you. So it's like really where the creativity, you can go crazy with the creativity here. But yeah, so just wanted to show you that like that specific use case, like it's so freaking easy to, like I just orchestrated that in 30 seconds as I was talking with you, do you know what I mean? - Right. - And it's a crazy flow. It's a crazy thing.

## 48:30 — Timing as the ultimate signal

**[48:30]** Like, oh, now I'm just going to look at your posts, like monitor for the people that are in sales and revenue, going to get them to me. I understand if the posts, there's an LLM that actually understands if the posts are at all relevant within the grand scheme of things of things that I wanted to say to you regarding ample market. And then it's going to bring them to the forefront with a sequence that is bespoke, unique to that person, to that account, to the right case study, et cetera. Do you know what I mean? Like it's-- - Oh, and that's what we were talking about earlier. Like a lot of this, it's not linear. It's not just like pull a list,

**[48:59]** hit them with the sequence, nurture the money flowing through the funnel. Like that's not how this works. It's you have some aspects that look like that, but it has to be so tailored and especially now. Now more than ever, and it's about to get even worse. Like you said, the amount of salespeople, the amount of companies, the amount of noise, it's only going to amplify. So you need to be able to stand out, not even stand out. You just need to find people that are relevant for you to connect with and have relevant reasons to be talking to them. - The relevant reasons to me are about timing, right? It's like, I love the capture of timing.

**[49:35]** And I think about timing a lot as like, what is the last business thoughts that a VP of sales had before they fell asleep? And what is the first thing that comes to mind? And it's kind of like, I'm trying to just, with all of the signals that you see available here, I'm trying to think like, okay, like someone that is submitting a G2 review about some info and they're frustrated, that clearly one of their business thoughts is going to be like, oh, I need to change this because it's not working for me. And when I think about like, finding someone that is engaging with you. And if I just tell employment, but just look at sales leaders

**[50:10]** that have like grown their sales team by more than 100% over the past six months, and they have 10 roles open for AEs, man, that person is really thinking about pipeline generation, right? And I can build that signal with you in 30 seconds, right? It's all about like, this is really, again, where the data, the signals, the data, and the sequencing platform come together in the most seamless fashion. Because one thing is like, oh, find a signal, yeah, fine. Okay, no, but find a signal for PPs of sales that are hiring 10 sales reps and that have grown their sales team by more than 100%. Well, that's another question. It's not the same question, right?

**[50:50]** And this is really only possible if your signals platform and your data platform kind of like leave seamlessly together. And it seems easy, but it's like something that is like fundamentally hard to do, yeah. - Absolutely, and I've been doing this type of stuff for over a decade, and it's so hard. And this is, I remember logging into Ample Market, and it felt like it was Christmas morning. Like, wow, it's this easy, everything's all here, it's so easy for me to do. - Well, enablement is so important. Honestly, like sometimes like just like the simple thing with like, you know, potentially you've lived this, but like for your team of sellers,

## 51:31 — Enabling global teams: multilingual selling with Duo

**[51:31]** like you change one pop-up on Salesforce and they go crazy. - Oh, sure, yeah. - So imagine displacing a bunch of the things that they're used to using. Like it can seem daunting from a sales leaders standpoint. So we think a lot about that, like about like giving value to any rep that joins Ample Market straight from like minute one, right? So, and not only that, like we work with a lot of global teams, so people selling multiple languages. Like, and so like I have sellers who live in Europe, in Colombia, in the US, and so they all like speak different languages. And I speak different languages, actually. I speak Portuguese and I speak French.

**[52:09]** So usually if I'm reaching out to someone in France, and I know that they speak French, I will reach out in French, and if they're in Portugal, I'll reach out in Portuguese. And the main point here, especially for global teams, is imagine like you do so much work to develop like all of your projection handling, all of like your battle cards for the North American market, and all of that content exists in English. - Right. - Now we say like, let's develop Europe, and let's go sell in France and in Spain and in Germany. And you know what? Like those markets hate English. So you need to sell in French, in Spanish, and in German.

**[52:45]** So now all of a sudden like we're faced with the decision, oh man, like we need to hire like an enablement person locally that speaks that language to actually translate all of the documents that we have to create all of the value props and all of these case studies like results. But with ample market, like with Duo, deploying a new rep in a new territory, it becomes really easy. Because you just say, in your Duo settings here, if you go to the messaging settings, you just say, look, in your tone of voice, if the person is in French, right, and speaking French, or if the person is in Portugal, right, and speaking Portuguese, and that's like again,

**[53:18]** bringing it back to like Duo knowing you like nobody else, it's really where that comes in. And I do have an example here. - And while you're pulling this up, I wanna highlight, like for someone like you, multilingual, that's such a power feature. I don't think you would recommend someone like, I only speak English, I dabble in Spanish. I don't think you would recommend me creating sequences in other languages to try to pretend like I can connect with them. I don't think ample market's trying to come up with that like inauthentic way of connecting with people. - No, not at all. It's actually funny to listen to yourself

**[53:54]** speak other languages, FYI, if you're ever curious about like what do you sound like in Mandarin, and I've done that. - Well, we've tested it on your platform, and that's what made me think like, there's no way I can send this right now. (laughing) - No, but I'm not suggesting that whatsoever. I'm suggesting like, like if you hire a rep in Spain, right now, making all of your content, the case studies, the value props that were written in English available in Spanish takes literally one second. It's just that one line. And so like, for example, here's an example, like a past close loss opportunity, because like ample market, one of the signals

**[54:23]** is kind of like looking at close loss opportunities. And Teresa here is kind of like close loss opportunity that with whom I spoke Portuguese, so why would I engage her in English? It makes no sense. Like, do what kind of knows. Okay, she's Portuguese. And by the way, do what was actually, you don't understand Portuguese, but it's basically bringing the reason why it was a close loss, and it's actually restating all of those reasons that came from the CRM. And you know what, in the CRM, all of the close loss reasons are in English, because like our sales force is all in English. So Duo understood the close loss reasons in English,

**[54:55]** and Duo also understood that like for Portuguese people, I speak Portuguese. And so the full sequence here across like multiple steps is completely built as like a Portuguese sequence. But I don't have like any French ones here, I guess, but you know, if you had French ones, like you'd see them in all of the content in French. But again, I'm not suggesting that you should sell in a language that you don't speak, not at all, but like developing a new market, it seems like, oh my God, like, now I need to turn everything to Spanish? It's such a daunting task, right? And here it's kind of like, no, if you have a salary in Spain, look, even if like all of the,

**[55:33]** and we can go into like, even if all of the company value props here are in English, even if all of the data that we're ingesting from your CRM is in English with a little line here in your tone of voice, you can actually just say, hey, if the person is in French, I speak French. If the person is in Portugal, I speak Portuguese. If they're in Germany, I speak German. And, or like if the rep is in Spain, they will always speak Spanish. So you say like, oh, always write and speak in Spanish. And so, you know, that enablement, I understand it, especially in the global world, right? So like, no, like sellers are kind of like distributed.

## 56:09 — Recap and how to get Amplemarket

**[56:09]** We live in a remote first world. It comes even harder to enable those themes across borders and across like cultures. And so like here, one line, and now you're all good in terms of like selling the value props, case studies, et cetera, for those companies, yeah. - Well, Mika, I feel like everything you've talked about, it just shows the level of craftsmanship. It shows the level of care. Just like that Louis Vuitton bag that we were talking about earlier, like you've gone through this on your own. You use the product internally. You work with companies like Lean Scale. We use this internally. We recommend it to our customers.

**[56:46]** Like there's a lot of feedback coming in every single day to this platform. And it just shows how intentional you are about the design, about the features. It's really built with that person doing the job in mind. I really appreciate everything you shared. I'm just gonna just recap real quick 'cause there's so much. You have the data platform. You are connected to the CRM so you can leverage that data. You have all of the intent signals. Then you have the execution layer of actually being able to sequence this. You can sequence across multiple modalities. You've got email, phone, LinkedIn. It's one of the best,

**[57:24]** even if this was just a point sequencing solution, it's one of the best sequencing solutions I've ever worked with. And then you wrap it all up with some of the most powerful AI features that I've seen in Go to Market. Not just powerful, but relevant. And I love the mission of just being able to connect people. People who have problems, connect them with solutions, find actual, authentic, relevant ways to get connected, build that trust between two humans. I just think you've done an amazing, amazing job. And I know you're not even stopping. Like there's so much more that I know you guys are working on and doing. So we'll have to do this again, I'm sure.

**[58:04]** But I wanna kick it to you. Any last minute things you wanna leave people listening with or best way to get their hands on Ample Market? - The best thing is like we offer free trials. Like you should never buy something without trialing it. So like if you wanna trial, like there's a 14 day free trial at least that you can just request here on the website. So feel free to go to the website and then request a free trial. I think like you should always validate your use cases for yourself. Like again, and I love, I think a lot of like long-term. As a founder, my perspective is kind of like, I think a lot about building great products

**[58:41]** and building delightful experiences. And so this takes time, like it just takes time. There's like a lot more that we have coming and we focus a lot on that craft that we're talking about. Like our focus is to really deliver value to these end users that are the quarter carrying reps. And it's going to be like delighting them with like a platform that they didn't, they didn't even know that they wanted. And so like, it's so interesting that you're saying that on the engagement front, yes, it's so like right. It turns out it's really hard to build a really good engagement platform that can actually rival outreach and sales loft

**[59:12]** because they're spending like, they spent like 15, 20 years just perfecting that. And there's a lot of trade-off decisions that going to like building that. It took us some time and some white hair, but like we're seeing a lot of that. We're seeing a lot of like our biggest logos and I cannot disclose all of them coming to us so actually this place, some of these is old school vendors that have not innovated much in the past five years. And ample market's rate of innovation, like we always believe that. Like it's kind of like we innovate faster than the market. If you do that for a long enough period of time, you know, you're going to be ahead.

**[59:44]** But mostly if you innovate with the users, you're golden. And so like I really, defining who you're building for was so important to us. We're building for these people. And our take is that they're not going anywhere. Whereas like many companies in this space, you can take a look at their takes from last year and what they're saying this year. Last year is like SDR, BDR gone. And this year is saying, oh, no, no, human plus AI. No, no, no, we will always believe and we always built for them because ultimately like we understand that sales to go just like to a full circle thing. It's about that thing. It's about you and I trusting each other, right?

**[1:00:20]** And really committing to each other. And that's so far a human thing to do. - Absolutely. Well, Mika, this has been absolute gold. Thank you again for taking the time joining, opening up under the hood. So cool to see the platform in action and show all the power features. If anybody's asking, I'm sending them to your website. I'm pointing them at that free trial. I know they could find you on LinkedIn too. Just thank you so much. Thank you so much for being here. And we cannot wait to see what you build next. Yeah, so yeah, boy, stay tuned. Like there's more stuff coming, but thank you so much for having me Anthony. It was just like, it was a lot of fun.

**[1:01:05]** Thank you. - Thank you.